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 Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Andy 
Date:   09-14-02 18:19

Hello Everyone,

After doing some research, and contacting some very reliable sources, I have finally, come to some understanding of what the original plot of Serpent Isle was like. It wasn’t that much different from what has been guessed. Although, yes, the game would have been longer. That being said, I was intrigued about what I did find. Unfortunately, I have yet to find anyone with a full copy of the plot.

Firstly, there was of course Claw Isle….

There are two conflicting accounts, which may reflect how the story evolved into the one in the Silver Seed. One source stated, “There was supposed to be a Kilrathi (from Wing Commander) stranded there (Claw Isle). Since he was so advanced he was considered a god to any primitive people there. I'm not sure if there was any technology or advanced weapons to be found there.”

Another source stated, “The cat statues represented an almost extinct tribe of cat-like beings, and I believe the chief, Yearl, was in the game.” (Yearl’s art was used as the cat-creature in the Silver Seed.) “He was going to be an ally of the Avatar for a brief time, and he was supposed to be a tragic character who saw that the end of his people was near. We had no plan for the Avatar to be able to save his people, we wanted to darken the mood a bit and add some dramatic conversations with the last survivor about the dying race.”

There weren’t really any plans for the Naga, in spite of the “Naga Temple” that could be found as a very blank, gray, step-like building with bars in the game. “The Naga were supposed to represent wild/barbaric offspring of the Ophidians. The Ophidians were such an advanced and wise culture, and the Naga were either servants or creations of the proud race. The Naga eventually turned on their masters and may have aided in the destruction of the Ophidian culture. Now Naga exist in barbaric tribes scattered throughout the world.”

There were no special plans for the Ratmen either. (Granted there was a rumor floating around of a Ratman portrait that wasn’t included in the game.) One source stated, “I don’t even remember the ratmen, I don’t think there was any significant fiction surrounding them.”

As far as city design, Moonshade (and Fawn) was supposed to have 2 layers….

“Moonshade was a two layered city till just before we shipped the game. We had to take out the second level because the technology could not handle the high object count, and this makes me very sad. It had cool overhead walkways, elevated decks and every building had multiple floors.” However, “there would have been no changes to the plot at all” from this.

Of course the major part of the cut plot came from shortening the story of the 3 Banes….

“The major plot element involved the Banes ruling the three towns, each Bane twisting each town into their own likeness.” “…. causing changes in all of the characters. However, the changes were mostly in conversations.” “It really would have been cool, but we were such a green team we had no clue how much work we were getting ourselves into when we started the project. Most of the townspeople were supposed to be left alive, but twisted or transformed to something inhuman and appropriately psychotic. It was supposed to explore what each Bane represented, taken to an extreme. Cutting this saved about 1/3 of our development time, so this was a huge cut. No one was happy about it, but after months and months of 70-hour weeks, we all realized that it was necessary.” “If I remember right, you were supposed to go to each town and defeat each Bane in their own territory. I don’t remember the details though.”

This checks out with the little bit found in the usecode as one of the characters stated that he saw his reflection in a puddle of water as a wolf. I believe it was one of the Monitor residence.

Also, originally, if it was forseen that the team was going to run out of time…. “we had a "fallback" scheme where if we ran out of time, we would ship the first half of the game - up to Batlin's death, basically. The second half could then have come out as an expansion pack of sorts. Unfortunately, when we ran out of time, management had other ideas. :-) The first things that were cut were areas that didn't have a lot to do with the main plot. (The deserted cat island, for instance.) We had already created the art and built those areas, but didn't have the resources to
complete the scriptcoding (which turned out to be much more time-consuming than anticipated). Then came the idea of "killing everyone off" after the Banes were released. In the original plot, you could revisit Monitor, Fawn and Moonshade and see the effects of the Banes there. Cutting these areas saved us the work of scriptcoding.” “I didn't want to do it (kill everyone off) as I didn't think it would save that much time. (The post-Banes cities didn't require much scriptcode, which was our critical area; the conversations, on the other hand, had already mostly been written.) From a dramatic viewpoint, however, I think the mass death was actually better than the original plot. The funny thing is, I don't think we saved much coding time by mass death. It turned out to be more difficult than expected to "kill everyone off" in the proper way (with their bodies in the right locations). There were some amusing bugs (which we fixed) where you could find someone still alive, then he'd abruptly die in front of you.”

How the original source died….“I think it's all been lost. Few if any of us kept personal copies, and the official Origin archive copy was lost in a network accident shortly after the game shipped.”

It has also been noted on the Exult board that the Silver Seed characters were not true NPC’s, but “Monsters” as were some of the characters in the original game. “It was just a way to add characters after we'd used up all of the "character slots" in the game system. Technically, the main difference I recall is that "monsters" don't have schedules (though the same result could have been created in scriptcode).”

Does anyone else have any information to add?

Also, does anyone else have any other questions that I should ask, that haven’t been covered? (errr… loaded question)….

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Morg (---.client.attbi.com)
Date:   09-14-02 18:37

Just an idea, would it be possible to use exult studio to create a game where all that happens

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Fouytr 
Date:   09-14-02 18:41

Interesting. I always wondered about the bane plot - excellent fun to play through of course, thought he mass death seemed a little abrupt, with for instance (Harrna I think) roving the cornfields, seemingly unaware of the near genocide that had occured.

Can I ask about your sources Andy ? If its a deep throat scenario .. fair enough.


One thing perked my curiosity though, and the answer from this sort of draws on the above question - can I ask where did the two conflicting Claw Isle plot descriptions came from ?

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: DrCode (---.hevanet.com)
Date:   09-15-02 00:18

Morg: The answer is 'yes'. It will be a lot of work for whoever does it, and it will also involve some work by us developers to support 'patching' the scripts.

I think it would be a nice thing to do. But, I should point out that technically, one should have Origin's permission to distribute it.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Andy 
Date:   09-15-02 11:50

Sorry Fouytr. I don't think that it would be wise for me to reveal my sources. Let's just say that they ARE reliable. :0) There may eventually be more information, but I wouldn't get my hopes up... It's one of those wait, and see kind of things. If patience was one of the eight sacred virtues, I probably wouldn't have gotten out of Trinsic in the Black Gate. I'll see if I can clear up the seemingly contradicting Cat Isle view points.

Also, it has been mentioned before, but when Shamino "The Anarch" rules Moonshade, he was supposed to issue certificates to give various people the right commit crimes (such as murder)....

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Dominus 
Date:   09-15-02 12:23

some things concerning this and Exult:
You can actually see some of the cut conversations.
This is not for the "faint of hearts" :-)
- after the wall of lights (save of coures here), cheat your way well OUTSIDE of one of the cities, enable egg view ('e'), scroll the screen to see inside the city and delete the eggs that look like horseshoes, next to the inhabitants of the cities.
This may crash your game in some conversations with the dead.
I think Moscow Dragon first found this "cheat".

We also had the deaths in SI seem very strange as some people would die on sight as well...

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: achile dragon (---.223-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca)
Date:   09-15-02 14:48

What about Cantra Ccan we finnaly find a cure

Hope that exult team or other people will try to restore the plot as-is


Achile

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: ToasterThief 
Date:   09-15-02 18:46

Hey, that's some great info. If you can get any more in depth conversations, perhaps you can see what was cut from Moonshade-there's a character paperdoll for one of the young mages to join your party.


Also, it's good to see that the hackmove/see dead conversations cheat that I found is still being used.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Crypt (---.216.41.122.ma.110.net)
Date:   09-15-02 20:01

hey they don't have any of those objects in the data files that come with the game do they? the overhanging bridges and stuff...?

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Fouytr 
Date:   09-16-02 04:42

Card-carrying certified by the Anarch criminals eh Andy ?
Could see that from a 'ordered-chaos' perspective, tying it in to the plot. - though as the Bane of Anarchy would not any form of order (especially 'anarchy' expressed as a form of bureaucracy) be anethama to the Bane's very nature ? Or would the anarchistic actions by definition be ordered or chaotic or both at the same time or varying random degrees of each part to .

*goes cross-eyed*

I'll post about this subject some other time, where I'm not quite so tired.

heh.

Gileathane Dragon

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Andy 
Date:   09-16-02 19:06

Crypt:

I don't think so, as one of my sources stated, the object count was too high for the game engine once the different areas were assembled together, and that's a shame. If that art could be found (even more doubtful than finding the complete details of the plot). Maybe someone could rig up a sort of "swap-file" to add objects to the game engine while storing unused objects in an outside file. Todays computers should be fast enough to do this quickly. Of course if someone teleported from one area of the map to another area where the former objects are used, rather than going there normally (walking), this could cause unforseen problems. This being said, it would be a lot of work, if it were possible.... the Exult crew would know if it were.

Fouytr:

Perhaps Shamino the Anarch wanted Anarchy... under his control... :0)

Yes, I would really like the Original plot restored also. That's part of the reason why I'm trying to uncover this stuff. Not easy.... +PATIENCE waaaa!!

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Neutronium Dragon (---.vc.shawcable.net)
Date:   09-16-02 19:11

I would hazard the guess that both cat isle plot ideas are right - as I recall, the Kilrathi were getting obliterated at around that time in the Wing Commander series.

Given the book that you find on the subject in the game, and the above comments, the most likely scenario is that the survivor of the crash (thought a god) created the cat-being race, and subsequently (presumably thanks to the imbalance, etc) they get wiped out. (Similar to the afflictions that the gargoyles, emps, etc, are suffering at the same time?)

Alternately, they may have been actual Kilrathi descendants, and thus the 'end of the race' would be more tied in to the WC games at the time.

Neutronium Dragon

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Andy 
Date:   09-16-02 22:31

Very interesting about the Kilrathi.... I'm still working that out with my sources. You may be right Neutronium....

As far as the conversations that can be read after you delete the "kill" eggs. One source had this to say....

"And I wouldn't guarantee that those "revealed" conversations are 100%
right - since we knew they wouldn't be used in the game, we never did any of the extensive "final polishing" that we did on the other conversations in the game. (So they're pretty rough and ready, more like first drafts.)"

But it couldn't hurt to see what further investigations may reveal in the game conversations.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Kennedy (---.client.attbi.com)
Date:   09-17-02 00:17

I always wondered about the origins of Petra. I was hoping that if I had her in my party when I played the Silver Seed expansion that the characters in the Order outpost would recognise her or the place may jog her memory but I was sadly disapointed. I also wondered why Mortegro the Necromancer (I think that's his name) looked so much like that guy in the temple of Tolerance who tells you where to find the Chaos Heirophants body.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Max aka Moscow Dragon (---.dialup.mtu-net.ru)
Date:   09-18-02 11:11

"Reflection as a wolf" - Schmed.

>There were some amusing bugs (which we fixed) where you could find
>someone still alive, then he'd abruptly die in front of you.”

No! :-) J.P. Morris still found such a bug in Fawn. Can be exploited, but not easily.
Also - was the Skullcrusher den near Sleeping Bull intentionally reachable by stairs? A huge plot shortcut.
Also the Silver Seed bug with Test Of Purity - double click on pillar. Not only it spoils SS, but provides a shortcut of leaving Moonshade too soon, cutting a huge part of plot.

>when Shamino "The Anarch" rules Moonshade, he was supposed to issue
>certificates to give various people the right commit crimes

There are usecode traces of it. Some never-displayed text of such a paper. Also Julia is fond of the "new Magelord Shamino The Anarch", who is better for her then Filbercio. I also remember some other Moonshaders speaking this - in dead usecode only, not in game.

Also - the survived thing, displayed in the usual game. Fedabiblio - after de-petrification - is talking about "Anarch first made friends with Rangers". Also Ernesto the Ranger is alive, and is not-so-against Shamino.

>I think Moscow Dragon first found this "cheat".

No, not me, though it is rather obvious that post-bane deaths are caused by usecode Eggs triggered on any entrance to the city.
BTW! We must check the Furnace serpent gate. It does not trigger heat (a known bug), so, it maybe does not trigger deaths too.

>I also wondered why Mortegro the Necromancer (I think that's his name)
>looked so much like that guy in the temple of Tolerance who tells you
>where to find the Chaos Heirophants body.

So what? They were both in the temple.
Also - what was supposed to be during talk to ghosts in the explosive factory? Not Chaos Hierophant for sure. And what?
Also - the Swamp Cathedral. Also - towers on the entrance to Gorlab with a passage. They have Erstam's keys inside. Also - Erstam's retreat. Why the girlies are "Avatars"?

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Dominus 
Date:   09-19-02 00:44

So many questions and never really satisfying answers...

About those pillars in the SS-fort: I think those were just screw ups from the add-on team. Probably put them there because they looked good and forgot the associated usecode. Stupid mistake, yes, but not intentionally I guess.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Colourless Dragon 
Date:   09-19-02 06:15

First there is a possible reason why the girlies are called Avatars. They might have been originally intended to be used as the Naked Avatar shapes, so they are called Avatars. However later in the production of the game they decided to move the Avatar shapes to 1024+ which can't be used normally be used. As an easter egg they just left them in the game.

The SS Piller problem was purely a bug. No doubt about it. 99.9% of all people wouldn't even think about double clicking on the pillers. It ends up screwing with the plot too much.

While the Skullcrusher den might not have been intentionally reachable by stair building, it might have been intentionally placed so it was easy to reach with just a little bit of cheating. An example of something similar else where in the would be the hidden room near the Balance Wall of Lights that contains everything you need to complete the game.

Petra is an interesting construction. She very much is not anything like a normal Order created Automaton. She seems to have number characteristics that would normally be associated with Chaos. Perhaps she was actually a Chaos follower who undertook the transferance procedure. That of course is pure speculation on my part.

-Colourless Dragon

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Max aka Moscow Dragon (---.dialup.mtu-net.ru)
Date:   09-19-02 14:14

>It ends up screwing with the plot too much.

Yes. The 2 most major screws are this and Skullcrusher den. J.P. Morris's "perverted walkthrough" is mainly based on them.

>the hidden room near the Balance Wall of Lights

Not a room. Just a backpack with all items, hidden under the wall due to dimetric view.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Kennedy (---.client.attbi.com)
Date:   09-21-02 22:08

Andy, could you ask your sources if it would be possible for Origin or somebody to release the files from the "Lost Vale" from U8? I always wondered what it would have been like, and found the few screenshots just left me with more questions.

as for SI, when I read that they originaly wanted Moonshade to have multiple layers, I was surprised that so many of the building there only had one level.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: MV (---.qld.bigpond.net.au)
Date:   09-22-02 05:13

All of this seems to be explaining the screenshots on the back of the box that arn't in the game.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Max aka Moscow Dragon (---.dialup.mtu-net.ru)
Date:   09-22-02 10:26

No. The box shots show Kylista the Priestess as a party member.

This seems to be another cutted part.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Morg (---.client.attbi.com)
Date:   09-22-02 11:31

Yes that angered me i always thought i was missing something because i couldn't figure out how to get to that screen shot

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Andy 
Date:   09-22-02 13:18

Actually, that screen shot was never truily in the game. It was art that was thrown together for promotional purposes. The screenshot with the giant turtle made me think that the Dark Monks were supposed to have a larger role in the game, as well as Petra having a different one. The "actual screens may vary" notation protected the marketing department from getting into trouble. Still, it was somewhat misleading. It's hard to say what the design team had in their minds at the time.

I'd also like to get more information on the U8 Lost Vale, but I think it should be one thing at a time (with SI for now). Several of the responses I've recieved were something like, "That was 10 years ago, and I don't remember anymore.) The sources that do have information are pretty busy, and the information I have givven you, took me several months to get.... So, we'll see.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Andy 
Date:   09-22-02 23:39

Also, as I recall (I'm doing this from memory, I don't have the picture in front of me), the picture with all the NPCs that aren't in your party normally in the game has a slight flaw. If you'll look closely, the Black Sword isn't even attached to the Avatar's hand. This is further proof that the picture was constructed, and not an actual battle scene from the game engine. Sorry to poop the party on that one.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Andy 
Date:   09-23-02 10:57

Here are some elements that are open to conjecture. My sources did NOT say these things, but they may have been implied by the cut plot...

1. Yearl's prescence in the Silver Seed, seemed to be more the actions of a rat(man) who would like cheese. Could they have replaced the Ratman with Yearl, since they weren't able to do the Cat Isle plot?

2. Cantra was supposed to be cured,.... and possibly join your party to return to her mother in Monitor. This could have proved interesting with Dupre the Babe in charge there.

3. Also, I believe Frelli was supposed to join your party, and visit his father in Fawn. This also could be interesting if Mad Iolo were in charge. I believe Frelli's paper doll art is in the files somewhere. Am I wrong?

4. Let's also not forget that Gwenno would probably want to join your party to try to bring Mad Iolo back. It would be an interesting plot twist to have Gwenno want to save Iolo, when Iolo came to save her in the first place. After Iolo is restored, Lady Yelinda could give Gwenno a hit from the Comb of Beauty. The trip back to Britannia could possibly make the effect on Gwenno permanent. That could be why she appears so young in Ultima 9.... (yes, I know that's stretching it).

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Andy 
Date:   09-23-02 11:03

2. I ment Dupre the BANE in charge there.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: achile dragon (192.197.51.---)
Date:   09-23-02 11:15

if only we can restore these plot and the big intro

Achile

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Neutronium Dragon (---.vc.shawcable.net)
Date:   09-23-02 13:53

Gwenno does join the group after the banes are dealt with, as I recall. But not before, she's too busy 'researching'.

Actually, I seem to recall that the old cheat codes would add Andrio to your party when you used the one to join up your standard party members. I don't know if this was another cut plot bit (they intended him to become a party member), or just a quirk in the cheat itself.

Neutronium Dragon

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Andy 
Date:   09-23-02 17:42

That's possible, but like I said, I was just speculating about Frelli, and Gwenno. With most of my sources, I can't really ask about specifics, because they really don't remember. They've developed too many games, or done too many things between now and 10 years ago. But I'm still trying....

As far as Yearl being in the Silver Seed maze. It just seems to make more and more sence that a Ratman was intended to be at the maze's center instead of Yearl (the cat creature).

1. There is the character asking for cheese.

2. It is a maze that Yearl is trapped in. "Like a rat in a maze."

3. There was a rumor about a ratman portrait that was never used.

I believe the developers wanted to put a Kilrathi link in, but the Claw Isle plot didn't make it, so they shoved the cat creature there.

It's a shame I can't invite my sources out to lunch, and discuss all of this with them, but I live way too far away from them. That way I wouldn't have to wait so long between answers.... It's a busy world.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Max aka Moscow Dragon (---.dialup.mtu-net.ru)
Date:   09-24-02 00:23

Gwenno joins after Dupre is dead. Exactly at that moment. Binding banes is not necessary.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Crypt (---.216.41.122.ma.110.net)
Date:   09-26-02 22:06

where do you and they live? i was just wondering if the distance is large or small...a lunch with them all together i'm sure there memories would be better..talking with those who helped make it and what not...

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Jesse Broecker (---.biz.rr.com)
Date:   09-29-02 12:52

So was the whole castle of the white dragon added after the plot was changed so there would be a dungeon to fight through to go capture the banes?

Also I'm curious I'd never heard of Shamino having a castle if so when and how the heck did it get to serpent isle, or is si another continent on the planet britania?

A little off subject but could someone give me a little background on Gwenno I never played any of the earlier Ultimas (hadn't heard of them) Anyway I'm curius where she comes from and how she and Iolo met, just curius. All I know of her is her letter to Iolo in BG and her appearance in SI

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Neutronium Dragon (---.vc.shawcable.net)
Date:   09-29-02 13:46

The Serpent Isle was The Lands of Danger and Despair during Ultima 1, when there were four separate continents. In Ultima lore, when Mondain's gem was shattered at the end of that game, the four continents were sundered from one another, and the continent known as The Lands of Lord British became the sole subject of subsequent games. (The other two continents were The Land of the Feudal Lords and The Land of the Dark Unknown.)

Collectively they had been known as Sosaria, and the name stuck with The Lands of Lord British until U4, when it became Britannia.

The other lands weren't destroyed, merely separated, and when the migrants who disagreed with Lord British's rule and system of virtues departed Britannia via the Serpent Pillars, they found themselves in The Serpent Isle/The Lands of Danger and Despair. Of course, the society which had existed there had become the Ophidian culture and then died out.

Shamino had been visiting Lord British at the time the lands were sundered, and thus was cut off from ever returning, resulting in the White Dragon Castle/Beatrix subplot in U7.5.

Gwenno originally appeared under the name Gwino in U1, as the castle jester. I don't know her history throughout U2 and U3, but she and Iolo had become an item as of U4.

Neutronium Dragon

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: debraregypt (---.24.171.45.75.charter-stl.com)
Date:   03-07-05 05:35

This game is way interesting... it follows Naga (snake).... it almost sounds like the ark and the bible history of the two pillers.. witht he snake.

At Petra there is an old temple with the two pillars....

Too much truth in this game... it follows a lot of myths

Deb

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: DrCode (---.mentorg.com)
Date:   03-07-05 09:28

Is that the main building that was in the "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" movie?

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: kaszeta (---.creare.com)
Date:   03-07-05 10:12

Yes, Petra was in the Last Crusade:

http://www.cynet.com/Jesus/images/PETRA.14.jpg

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Tristan de Inés (---.versanet.de)
Date:   03-08-05 01:25

Very interesting. I always found it a bit annoying how many people died after releasing the banes without the Avatar being able to save them. I tried very hard to find another way of progressing the game without the massacre. It didn't seem right.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Michele 
Date:   05-02-05 10:16

I belive Petra is Elissa the mage in the Silver Seed based on her conversations and the fact this is supposed to be a journey of 1000 or more years into the past of SI.

Would have been interesting to have Petra have flashbacks were she to be in party when meeting the Mage Elissa in the Silver Seed Expansion.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: SB-X 
Date:   05-02-05 14:35

I thought Petra is an automaton that Torrisio made.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Michele 
Date:   05-02-05 20:00

It actually makes sense he would be scavanging in Furnace for these rather than doing the work. Hubris seemed to me to be the mark of the moonshadian mage when first I played back when the game was released.

Seems to me one of the mundanes actually talk about him going into furnace, but it's been a long time since I really read some of the dialog.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Chris Schumacher (---.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
Date:   05-02-05 20:31

SB-X, all of the Automatons were built by the Ophidians. It's mentioned in the manual that they never figured out how to create the automatons, but found the spell that would bring them back to life.
And yes, although it isn't stated outright, it does seem that Elissa did eventually become Petra. Their portraits are virtually identical, same shape of face, same expression... And Elissa does talk about eventually wanting to become an Automaton, but she doesn't know if she has the courage to go through with it.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Covenant (---.red.retevision.es)
Date:   05-05-05 04:58

Hey! almost 3 years and nothing new! Now we can say we have mastered patience *wink*

Btw, hello everyone :)

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Sissy Knox (logged out) (---.man.nc.charter.com)
Date:   05-14-05 21:02

Hi! Sorry if this is necromancing...let's just pretend we're at one of Mortegro's seances. I have some related bits and pieces- I'd like to do a small feature on the Fashionable Avatar about this, so I'm doing some exploration and speculation.

Anyway, I've been doing J.P Morris's anti-walkthrough and I recently completed the Fawn bit. According to the walkthrough, the game spouts error messages left and right as people are taken from standing in the courtroom to their designated "dead" spot. It did exactly this, which was mildly entertaining. I ended up going back to Fawn, and I noticed that Delphynia was still standing there in the courtroom. The weird thing is, she's still alive, well, and has "Iolo the Mad" as a conversation topic. You can't click on it, but it's there. She doesn't move, but she won't die either (I might not be going to the right place, or something- not a big deal). I guess it's just another leftover...like the crime certificates, Flindo's lines, etc.

I'd imagine you might be able to access similar "missing" bits of dialogue from other NPCs by reviving them at the appropriate time via the cheat menu. Or maybe even by paying a visit to the dead room...

Also, I posted this elsewhere, but I'll post it here since it seems appropriate. In Yurel's conversation, his name is accidently spelled as "Yearl" in one spot. The snow leopard NPC in the Temple of Tolerance is named Yearl.

The Andrio party cheat bug- this sort of makes sense, actually. He is NPC #4 because he is first in alphabetical order in Moonshade (they seem to go first in NPC numbering). It would be an easy thing to overlook.

Hmm...I sort of like the idea of you returning Freli to Delin...though I wonder if he'd even recognize his son. "...art thou one of Alyssand's friends?" indeed. Now Freli in the paperdoll art? I've never seen that- but that's not to say it wasn't ever planned. A little boy's head on the macho, muscular male body would be funny so, if Freli was ever in the works to join you (or Andrio or Cantra, for that matter), scrapping the idea would be understandable. It would require new bodies, and thus, new art for every paperdoll item in the game. Tedium defined.

Speaking of paperdoll friends, I doubt it's significant, but I find it endlessly amusing how similar Mortegro and Sethys are. It's not enough that they look the same, but they both get obliterated just from stepping outside of the Temple of Tolerance. Oh dear, what a wacky fish-out-of-water sitcom this would make- instead of the Altar of Tolerance...the lightning storm swaps Mortegro with Sethys!

But just how would an Ophidian adapt to life in newfangled Moonshade? First of all, none of the Moonshadians would notice the swap since they look so similar- but that wouldn't even matter because Sethys would disintegrate before everyone's eyes, resulting in the show's inevitable cancellation after a mere three minutes. We wouldn't even make it to the first commercial break :(. But that's okay, because this was a very silly idea in the first place.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Vasculio 
Date:   05-04-06 05:13

SB-X, all of the Automatons were built by the Ophidians. It's mentioned in the manual that they never figured out how to create the automatons, but found the spell that would bring them back to life.
And yes, although it isn't stated outright, it does seem that Elissa did eventually become Petra. Their portraits are virtually identical, same shape of face, same expression... And Elissa does talk about eventually wanting to become an Automaton, but she doesn't know if she has the courage to go through with it.

I'm confuse Freli's mother is named Elissa, is it just uncanny that a women out there might happen to have the same name?

Elissa a mage
Freli is a mageling

No connection whats so ever?

Uncle Rico: Napoleon, you know we can't afford the fun pack. What, do you think money grows on trees in this family? Take it back! And get some Pampers for you and your brother while you're at it.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Jets Connor (---.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date:   05-07-06 08:13

"They say that once a year, the thread gets revived by the magical light of the solar eclipse and comes back to wreak a terrible vengeance upon those who killed it."

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Wizardry Dragon (public comp.) (72.1.195.---)
Date:   06-01-06 10:55

I plan to reimplement as much of the plot cut from SI as possible - however I do want to keep it up to SI quality and as such some of it might remain cut if it ends up being too cheesy or something. However, this is definetely something you can expect from TFL. It's what I was originally going to do when I started hacking at Usecode and Exult Studio, and I have not lost sight of that objective ^_^

I shall have to print this thread when I get the chance ... ^_^
--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer,
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: MinkyStripe 
Date:   06-01-06 20:15

WD, would you (or the mods of this board) prefer discussion of possible TFL additions on this board or on the TFL site, or does it not matter? I remember reading on the TFL board that it was on hiatus for a little while.

Thanks!

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Wizardry Dragon (72.1.195.---)
Date:   06-02-06 11:26

Doesn't matter to me, although the TFL boards could use some activity.

I was hiatus, yes, but the rest of the team wasn't. :P Had personal issues to take care of.

--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer,
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Crysta 
Date:   06-05-06 06:46

darn right.. i was still active.. jsut quiet cause no one was saying anything :(

i was all lonely :P

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: MinkyStripe 
Date:   06-05-06 08:25

If you start working on the original Bane plot, let me know. I'd love to help write some dialogue for the NPCs.

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Wizardry Dragon (72.1.195.---)
Date:   06-05-06 11:21

The hard part we have to contend with first is making a usable map for Serpent Isle, that is - one not horribly hacked up as the original was.

--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer,
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Serpent Isle cut plot... (notes)
Author: Covenant (---.static.auna.net)
Date:   07-05-06 03:17

Jets Connor said: "They say that once a year, the thread gets revived by the magical light of the solar eclipse and comes back to wreak a terrible vengeance upon those who killed it."

Don't come for me! It wasn't my fault! ARGGGGHHH!!! :o)

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