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 Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: captain bananas (---.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
Date:   12-03-11 08:04

Hello--

I've never played Ultima, but looking at the screenshots, it seems like the obvious mod to make would be one to rotate the game world 45 degrees clockwise, such that characters stand upright, etc. The present perspective is somewhat nauseating.

I have not seen screenshots of such a mod. Does such a mod exist? How complicated would it be to do such a thing with the existing Exult code?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   12-03-11 08:29

Very complicated. All graphics would need rerendering and you wouldn't be able to make it legally available. The engine would need time consuming testing and so on.
I like the perspective.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: lkasdjflkasjd (---.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
Date:   12-04-11 01:22

bummer. thank you for the answer :)

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Colourless Dragon 
Date:   12-05-11 04:25

As a curiosity I took some screenshots and rotated them to see what it would look like. The results were surprisingly very nice.







Getting it to work realtime in exult would require a number of changes. In fact a significant number of changes. However it would in theory be possible to do it. You wouldn't need to redraw the sprites.

Of my head the main issues that would need dealing with:
1) Exult can't deal with arbitrary view port transformation
2) Exult can't deal with having a different transformation on the world to the user interface
3) Exult assumes that the what it displayed on screen is a nice rectangle of tiles

Of those number 3 is the real problem. Simplest way to fix it would be to just expand the view port then rotate. In my test screenshots (ignoreing scaling) I ran the view port at 512x384 rotated then cropped to 320x200 and it 'just fit' with no missing data (320x240 was too big!). That was a lot of non visable area that exult thinks is on screen and is far from idea and would probably create a number of gameplay issues. Off screen wouldn't actually mean off screen anymore.

Of course rotating the viewport 45 degress makes the perspective quite similar to Ultima 8 and as such would probably be able to borrow code/algorithms from Pentagram wrt to calculating good screen visibility.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: resle (---.clienti.tiscali.it)
Date:   12-05-11 06:50

Considering the onscreen objects are never that much in U7, and given today's machines (even the slowest ones) computing power - visibility of a "renderable entity" should be easy to do. Take the bounding rectangle of the object's base, rotate it 45 degrees - if it collides with the world-to-screen rectangle then the object must be rendered.

You could just render everything with the older perspective BUT applying the aforementioned trick - then rotate the screen before presenting it. At this point, #2 becomes the only issue and what must be done is adding an arbitrary transformation "layer" to every mouse-to-world interaction.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Colourless Dragon 
Date:   12-05-11 10:01

Calculating if an object is potentially visable is quite trivial. The problems i forsee is the usecode making assumptions that the screen is 40 tiles wide and 25 tiles high (320x200 pixels). These are the same problems faced if running at a higher resolution. Of course we already support higher resolutions 'out of the box' and this wouldn't be 'that much' higher.

For a 320x200 rotated screen the dimetions of the buffer need to be 368x368 (320/sqrt(2) + 200/sqrt(2)).

This shows how things compare between the 368x368 buffer, the rotated section, and the usual 320x200 viewport


Having made that image, I'm less inclined to think there would be any major issues

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   12-05-11 10:01

I don't think I could get used to it.
While the NPCs all look nice I don't like that everything else is now at the wrong angle ;(

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: i30817 (---.net.novis.pt)
Date:   12-05-11 10:31

The objects become curiously flat

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Marzo Sette Torres Junior 
Date:   12-05-11 12:05

It looks flat because the z axis is half the length it "should" be for a true isometric perspective; since we all played games with (almost) true isometric perspective, we know how they "should" look, and the rotated version of U7's cabinet projection does not match this expectation.

------
Marzo Sette Torres Junior
aka Geometrodynamic Dragon
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   12-05-11 12:37

Don't overlook what Colourless hinted at with his comparison to pentagram: N S E W will be in the corners of the screen. No longer at top, bottom and the sides. Something I disloked about u8...

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: TDI (---.versanet.de)
Date:   12-05-11 17:04

I don't know what renderer Exult uses, but rotating the screen 45 should not be very hard. Maybe (probably) I'm underestimating things, but wouldn't it be enough to:

1. Apply a 45 rotation transformation.
2. render the world
3. Apply a -45 rotation transformation
4. render the interface/gumps/text/dialoge, whatever its called
5. Provide a function that transfers mouse X/Y coordinates to world X/Y for when user clicks inside world

The problem with this is that the screen will be clipped as in Colourless' screenshot, but this could easily be solved by rendering a larger area (you do this with higher resolutions, so it's already possible).

Maybe someone can explain the part that I'm underestimating.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Scythifuge 
Date:   12-05-11 18:47

This perspective is the same one used in Ultima Online. In fact, when I want to study some UO sprites for ideas for Savage Empire or other mod project sprites, I rotate the screenshots with a negative 45 turn to get them into the Ultima VII cabinet projection.

I think that having a version of Exult that rendered Ultima VII this way would be a neat & fun option in order to play the game in a different way. Plus making new games/mods would have more options.

Sprites with issues being rotated could be redrawn in order to fit better.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Jaesun999 
Date:   12-07-11 03:28

I have to say I do really like the 45 degree look. There is a program Rotsprite: http://info.sonicretro.org/RotSprite

I have used this to scale a few graphics for another engine I am working in. Just posting this if it possibly could be of any help.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Scythifuge 
Date:   12-07-11 07:27

I'll check out the program as I need to rotate many objects for Savage Empire & other projects.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (---.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
Date:   07-23-12 05:37

Rotate U7 map 45 degrees on the fly in Excult is very doable. I did some hacking of Excult 1.4.9rc1 in Windows and render a bigger map, rotate and copy it to screen. The rotated map looks blurry as the rotated pixels do not map to on screen pixel 1 to1. Converting mouse clicks to match rotated map is not easy, and the code looks quite complex to me. So far I have single left click(inspect) , single/double right click(walk) kind of working. Still a long way to go.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7261/7627660728_3211c9d43c_z.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7274/7627660306_f870e1ac97_z.jpg

(edit by dominus:urlified)

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   07-23-12 05:57

I like the perspective but I hate how the graphics are garbled.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Colourless Dragon 
Date:   07-23-12 11:38

You'd want to upscale and rotate at the same time to get much nicer looking rotation.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (192.55.54.---)
Date:   07-23-12 18:14

To minimize changes to exult, I copy the rotated map back to original 320x200 drawing surface where excult put gump and text on top of it. Excult scale up the final image at the end. This method does not allow me to rotate and scale up at the same time. I guess I need to rethink my strategy.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Scythifuge 
Date:   07-24-12 02:56

This is neat & I hope that it can be accomplished in a useable form.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Colourless Dragon 
Date:   07-24-12 03:32

You'd need to split the rendering into 2 different parts and composite them together (world and everything else). The simpler scalers should preserve alpha channel so you could draw gumps into a buffer thats got a background colour thats got an alpha value set (need to edit the palettes for this) then upscale and use the alpha values for a mask when compositing onto the scaled+rotated world view.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (---.jf.intel.com)
Date:   09-28-12 23:34

An update. Did what Colourless Dragon said: render map to a new window and scale and rotate it 45 degree. then composite it with the gump with alpha background. I could not find alpha channel support in any scaler so I modified PointScaler x2 to make it support alpha (index 255, had to change the palette code to reserved it). The map graphics look much better now IMHO.

I also had the basic mouse navigation and mouse/object interaction working. I am sure I still missed some special mouse event handling cases. At least I can work around Trinsic and interact with things now.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (---.jf.intel.com)
Date:   09-28-12 23:37

Screenshot



(Edit by dominus: used the right bracket for img)

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Colourless Dragon 
Date:   09-29-12 06:22

Looks nice! Good job

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Jaesun999 
Date:   09-29-12 12:38

That looks pretty cool!

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cable.teksavvy.com)
Date:   10-02-12 23:08

Anyone who has played Ultima Online will feel fully at home in Exult, now, for a new sun has risen, and it is but half of a right angle from prior times.

Thou art truly a wise man, ye who began rolling the ball of revolution.
Do not listen to naysayers, for they are big poopy head.
Instead, follow thine own path, and revolutionize the past to make way for the future.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: DrCode (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date:   10-03-12 18:37

That looks awesome! Ultima 7 from a whole new angle.:-)

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: WtF Dragon (---.ed.shawcable.net)
Date:   10-04-12 01:41

A good point was made about how this view will feel at home to UO players, and frankly I kind of like it as well. U7 did always look a little odd to me, but the rotated view actually looks quite pleasant.

Any chance this mod could get released in the near future? I'm sure there'd be a few people very keen to give it a play.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Incriptus (---.tukw.qwest.net)
Date:   10-04-12 04:28

First off, Good Job!

Second off, It makes me incredibly dizzy looking at it! It's like the world has been twisted into something unnatural. I never did play Ultima Online but i've played U7 so many times that rotating it just feels strange.

Of course I would give U7 Rotated a play through, as I like any excuse to play the game again!

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cable.teksavvy.com)
Date:   10-04-12 06:51

Quote: "It's like the world has been twisted into something unnatural. "

I then look at a screenshot.
What direction are the trees facing?


Up?

My God, that is so... twisted and unnatural! ;)

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   10-04-12 07:45

Please no fight over this ;) it will of course seem strange for many people as it IS different than how it used to be. Nothing to fight over...

Cma: is it playable yet?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: voskat (---.upc-f.chello.nl)
Date:   10-04-12 11:09

Love this. Must play.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: DrCode (---.mentorg.com)
Date:   10-04-12 23:24

If it's playable and can be switched on/off, that would make a very nice option.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Browncoat Jayson (---.neb.res.rr.com)
Date:   10-04-12 23:56

Very nice job. Can't wait to be able to try it!

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (---.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
Date:   10-05-12 07:03

Thanks for all the good words. The rotated view looks okay but I am finding new mouse issue as I venture further into BG (i.e board a carriage but it does not go the direction I click ). I will share this code once I get the major bugs out of the way.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: paulo (---.net.novis.pt)
Date:   10-05-12 17:16

Guess the mouse interface is not unified across all the code?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (---.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
Date:   10-11-12 06:01

Hi All,
This rotate world mod is still a prove of concept. I have a Windows executable available if people want to give it a try. It currently only support 320x200 game area and 2xSaI scaler (see installation below). It works with Excult-1.4.9-rc1 installation.

Download link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9l4jk0hd33fnvv8/Exult-rotate.exe

Installation:
Copy Excult-rotate.exe to the installation directory of a existing Excult 1.4.9-rc1 installion

Create a custom key binding and map a key for toggling rotation
- copy bgdefaultkeys.txt in Excult directory and name it my_keys.txt
- edit my_keys.txt and add a new line at the end like this:
Q toggle_rotate_world # hit Q for toggling rotation

- edit Excult.cfg and change <keys> tag to include full path to my_keys.txt
<blackgate>
....
<keys>
C:\Exult\my_keys.txt
</keys>
</blackgate>

Run Excult-rotate.exe , select setup and video options. see screenshot below. Option mark by the red rectangle must be set to that exact value. save the option and start a new Blackgate game. Hit Q to toggle rotate world.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   10-11-12 12:02

Can you put the source or a patch up so I can natively compile it on OS x? I *will* try it in Wine though.
Thanks for uploading this.

Edit: looks very nice. After just playing a bit with it it's hard to come to terms with either view. Both feel wrong and right now :)

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Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Mimu (81.17.19.---)
Date:   10-11-12 18:43

Ran it with the current snapshot using --nocrc. Works fine!

Although now the characters all look really weird if you try to walk straight up/down/left/right... in the native angle, approximating diagonal directions with the closest facing sprite is somehow easier to swallow. No easy solution for that that I can think of!

Another version or two of fixes and improvements, and I may be compelled to do a full playthrough with this.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (---.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
Date:   10-13-12 08:53

Here is a rotate world patch for official Exult 1.4.9rc1 source package.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3c8bqa3r947bdog/exult-1.4.9rc1-rotate.patch.gz

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Incriptus (---.tukw.qwest.net)
Date:   10-13-12 19:54

My previous attempt at humor via exaggeration failed, so my appologies.

I've wandered around Britannia 45, so as soon as my busy video game schedual clears up [There I go, trying to be funny in a post, ahhh!], I'll probably give it a play through.

Again, Thanks for sharing

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (---.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
Date:   10-14-12 05:10

Please be aware that rotate world is a work in progress mod and you could run into unknown bugs. It seems to work fine but it was not play test extensively. My hope is toggling back to original perspective temporary may allow you to overcome display bugs and not get stuck.

P.S. When preparing the rotate patch I found a bug in the windows executable causing object to be invisible when being dragged in normal perspective. This problem was fixed and follow the old url will give you the updated executable.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cable.teksavvy.com)
Date:   10-14-12 08:31

This is AWESOME!

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Ugh... (---.190-136-155.telecom.net.ar)
Date:   10-15-12 23:10

I followed all of cma's steps and yet can't get the rotation to work. I copied Exult-rotate.exe to the Exult folder, saved a modified version of bgdefaultkeys.txt as my_keys.txt, edited AppData\Exult\exult.cfg to use this file, and set the video options like they're in cma's screenshot, yet nothing happens when I hit Q. What am I doing wrong!?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   10-15-12 23:51

Go through the steps again. Are you running exult-rotate.exe and not exult.exe? Also stdout .txt will tell you which keyfile gets used.

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Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Incriptus (---.tukw.qwest.net)
Date:   10-16-12 00:55

[Humor] What play an Ultima game where you can run into unknown bugs & hasn't been extensively play tested? SO . . . it'll be just like old times! [/Humor]

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Scythifuge 
Date:   10-17-12 01:58

I ran around a bit in BG & looked at some of my Savage Empire sprites in the new perspective.

My comment on this thus far is AWESOME.

The potential here is very great. I hope that future revision supports all of the video modes (I play the games to look as close as I can get them to the originals with aspect correction on my lcd monitor.)

There was an image file floating around on the net some years ago where someone rotated a BG screenshot to this angle & I thought then that being able to play the game like that would be neat as well as refreshing after playing the living daylights out of The Complete Ultima VII.

Plus it makes me understand my stint in Ultima Online back in the early 2000's...

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cable.teksavvy.com)
Date:   10-19-12 06:56

Guys, if you've tried this out, definitely, definitely, post screenshots.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Mimu (46.19.137.---)
Date:   10-22-12 13:35

A few screens of interest:






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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Colourless Dragon 
Date:   10-23-12 05:39

I really like what it looks like. Just find the sprites having only 4 directions they face a little annoying. Really needs 8 (or 5) direction sprites like other games have.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (---.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
Date:   10-24-12 05:39

I like the look in those screenshots. Here is an update to the Windows executable and patch for the source code. This new version supports all fill mode plus bigger window size and game area. Rotate world still requires 2xSaI scaler.

Windows executable
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1exdajp0fpcbx98/Exult-rotate-v2.exe

patch for 1.4.9rc1 source
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2bqk9vbn558cpfg/exult-1.4.9rc1-rotate-v2.patch.gz

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cable.teksavvy.com)
Date:   10-27-12 16:22

I've played around with the rotate patch. It works very well, albeit slightly slow presently.

There are issues with:

-Mouse alignment with object about to be dragged
-Object being dragged reverts to the original, non-rotated display.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: William (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date:   10-27-12 17:46

Sadly I haven't been getting this to work yet. As one who remembers getting Ultima 7 to run in dos before the days of Exult, I like to think I should be able to figure this patch out, but apparently I can't.

I have:
-Moved your .exe into the same folder as the usual exult.exe
-Copied bgdefaultkeys.txt, renamed it my_keys.txt, and added the new line at the end of it
-Edited the exult.cfg to read (my exult program is found at C:\exult

<keys>
c:\exult\my_keys.txt
</keys>

I run the rotate.exe, change to the proper video options, then start a new game.

So far I haven't gotten it to rotate. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   10-27-12 19:24

Did you hit q? And are you using the right exult.cfg?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cable.teksavvy.com)
Date:   10-27-12 20:44

You need to modify the my_keys.txt to include "q" as a hotkey.

Quoted from cma:

Create a custom key binding and map a key for toggling rotation
- copy bgdefaultkeys.txt in Excult directory and name it my_keys.txt
- edit my_keys.txt and add a new line at the end like this:
Q toggle_rotate_world # hit Q for toggling rotation

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: William (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date:   10-27-12 21:11

Wow thanks for the quick responses!

Uh oh, what is the right exult.cfg? I'm using the exult.cfg file that is in the same directory as the exult.exe file. I am hitting q, and I did modify the my_keys to include the new line with the q.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: William (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date:   10-27-12 21:20

Aha, I found it! I wasn't aware that the exult.cfg in the Exult folder was not the real one! Thanks for the help!

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cable.teksavvy.com)
Date:   11-02-12 04:53

Yeah, Exult does that for some reason.

I gotta call shenanigans on it.

C'est la vie.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   11-02-12 05:21

Quote:

Yeah, Exult does that for some reason.
because with modern Windows OS you are by default not allowed to write to files in c:/program files. You'd still have an exult.cfg but the actual file being used would be even more annoyingly in a different folder in the user folder....

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Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cable.teksavvy.com)
Date:   11-02-12 18:58

Ah, the perils of installing to C:\Program Files\, as opposed to, I don't know, C:\Games\.

However, we digress from the actual topic.

CMA, how goes thy work, good sir?

Shirley thou hast progressed with the Ultima 7 upright world patch.

What say thee?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Smoke 
Date:   11-02-12 19:15

I'm sorry, I didn't read this entire topic, but, the solution to this is simple, assuming you use a matrix.

You just setup up your rendering to use a matrix, apply a rotation to matrix for the world, objects, etc, excluding UI, and other things you don't want rotated.

Seriously, use a matrix, it's the EASIEST way to handle rendering, they can be a pain to setup, and get right, but, once implemented, you can zoom\rotate\move any object however you want with little trouble.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Nanihikaru (32.60.64.---)
Date:   11-02-12 20:00

Works! it also made the game look like Ultima 8!

except it's too slow on my laptop makes it hard to play.


I wonder if is possible to pre-render all world tiles 45' and modify the game view port and render to accommodate the new coordinate system.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Smoke 
Date:   11-02-12 20:43

There doesn't seem to be an "edit" button. ?

Anyways, I just wanted to add that the majority of games use a matrix for handling rendering, and since the matrix does all the math for you, it will likely make the game run better, or at least feel better\smoother. (Google should get you sorted, search for: SDL Camera Matrix 2D)

Aside from the rotation fix being applied, I'd also love to see zooming implemented into the camera.

@Nanihikaru, what I've suggested should fix that problem, however, during a quick search, I read that SDL doesn't support hardware transforms, there seems to be a better version of SDL(or something similar?) which does, however, it may not be as portable. (I don't really know this API that well, I generally use DX myself, so, just, research it a bit I'm sure you guys will find all you need via Google.)

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Marzo Sette Torres Junior 
Date:   11-03-12 01:05

@Smoke: there is a difference between not wanting to read the whole thread and not wanting to put the slightest bit of effort in attempting to get updated in the topic; the post right above yours asks about the status of a patch -- which would imply to anyone with the least bit of coding experience to suspect that someone has solved the problem. Which is the case here: just a few page up presses from your post was a set of screenshots of a working demo, as well as source code patches.

And yes, we know about matrices. They are useful, yes, but not as "magical" as you may have been led to believe.

But enough of grumbling; the rotated graphics are really beautiful! The non-isometric nature of the end graphics actually makes them look more realistic than a normal isometric perspective does, at least to my eyes.

------
Marzo Sette Torres Junior
aka Geometrodynamic Dragon
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Smoke 
Date:   11-03-12 13:34

"not wanting to put the slightest bit of effort in attempting to get updated in the topic"

I read the topic(mostly), and I saw the patch.

But, I think you're killing performance, and likely causing bugs by doing it that way, so, I offered another option.

Regardless, I was completely up to date, you assume too much.

------------

"post right above yours asks about the status of a patch... which would imply to anyone with the least bit of coding experience..."

I posted before him, originally, but yeah, I should have skipped ahead into the future, and saw his post, then went back into the past, and warned myself about making that post...

Seriously, you should get up to date on the topic, you must not have the least bit of 'coding' experience. (Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?)

-----

"And yes, we know about matrices. They are useful, yes, but not as "magical" as you may have been led to believe."

I don't think you do, and I wasn't led to believe anything, I know.

--

"But enough of grumbling"

kthxbye?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   11-03-12 13:43

You wrote yourself you didn't read the whole thread.
Marzo was refering to the post directly above your 1st post.
Before arguing for matrices please take a look at our code and see if that is even applicable. Same for zooming...

Enough arguing about it, if you want to really help, please first look at the code and give practical advice instead of theoretical.

Btw, no edit possibility of topics because we like to keep the forum as simple as possible.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Smoke 
Date:   11-04-12 02:07

"Before arguing for matrices please take a look at our code and see if that is even applicable. Same for zooming..."

I don't need to see your code to make this determination.

It's a basic and fundamental aspect of rendering that applies to every single graphics API that I've ever used, and imagine has ever existed.

As for practical advice, it was already given, you've simply refused to hear it.

Anyways, I suggest researching basic rendering principles, particularly matrices, and their usage in terms of transformations. (ie, rotation, etc,.)

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   11-04-12 04:51

Quote:

Enough arguing about it, if you want to really help, please first look at the code and give practical advice instead of theoretical.

As long as you have no idea about SDL or our code all you are giving is useless theoretical advice and wisecracking.
Wouldn't you look foolish to begin with if we were already using matices?
Or if we weren't would you volunteer to rewrite our rendering code to use them, testing the whole game that your new code doesn't break anything?
I guess not as you only like to give theoretical advice. Thanks but no thanks.

If you like to discuss this further, please start your own thread but be gone from this one. I'll see to it that this thread keeps clean from now on.

Edit: seriously, reread what I wrote. NO MORE of this in this thread. I WILL keep this thread clean from now on.
If you open a new thread be aware that in theory world peace could be achieved by killing all humans. But that is just not practical. Applying this to your matrix stuff. Yes, in theory matrices would help, it's just not practical to rewrite everything at this stage. You are welcome to hand in patches - that would be practical. Theories are nice I'd just like you to prove it. Until then consider yourself ignored (unless it really concerns the topic of this thread again). Also see https://dl.dropbox.com/u/29229104/picdump/arguing%20on%20the%20interenet.jpg
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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Ugh... (---.190-138-4.telecom.net.ar)
Date:   11-04-12 15:06

No matter how many times I repeat all steps and double-check each one, I can't get the rotation to work. And I know that Exult-rotate-v2.exe is loading the right keys file, as if I erase one of the default key bindings from the same file I added the key for toggle_rotate_world to, it stops working in-game. WTF?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Mimu (81.17.19.---)
Date:   11-04-12 23:17

Hmm. If you try editing your video settings in-game, and switch the scaler to something other than 2xSaI, then close the menu and press Q, there should be a message saying "Rotate: needs 2xSaI scaler". If you don't get that message, then I would guess maybe the Q keybinding isn't working for whatever reason... :?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (---.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
Date:   11-05-12 01:46

Responding to Kalos Dragon's post

"There are issues with:

-Mouse alignment with object about to be dragged
-Object being dragged reverts to the original, non-rotated display."

Mouse alignment turn out to be a tough problem. Mouse positions are rotated for finding object in rotated world. I cannot make the mouse works well with all the objects on screen. objects close to the center of the screen seems to align better. I did some adjustments anyway, try this windows executable and see whether the alignment improved.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/etua8zt990ybm58/Exult-rotate-0.3.exe

To rotate the object being dragged it need to be upscale first otherwise the graphics will look crappy. Unfortunately, dragged objects is painted on top of the gump (to support dragging object to character inventory) which does not upscale until all the non-rotate shape are all painted. This require quite a bit of code changes. I need to give it some more thought.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Guesto (---.csbnet.se)
Date:   11-13-12 13:34

Looks awesome, keep it up

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: TDI (---.versanet.de)
Date:   11-17-12 20:57

Awesome. I can't wait for this to make it's way into the official snapshots. Then it will really be time to replay U7 again.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: voskat (---.upc-f.chello.nl)
Date:   12-05-12 14:01

This doesn't work with Exult 1.5.0 then?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   12-05-12 14:28

No, it doesn't work with SVN.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Elrond Hubbard (---.pools.arcor-ip.net)
Date:   12-13-12 23:24

Sometimes people ask "Why do we need Exult, can't you just run Ultima 7 in Dosbox?"

Exult Rotate is an example of something you can only do with an open-source reimplementation of the Ultima 7 engine.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cable.teksavvy.com)
Date:   12-27-12 06:10

So, what's going on with this? Any News?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cable.teksavvy.com)
Date:   01-14-13 08:48

Really? Nothing?

Thou surely must be kidding!

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: paulo (---.net.novis.pt)
Date:   01-14-13 11:59

There are lots of other things happening with exult right now, but this patch is not one of them, unless there is a surprise merge request.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-14-13 12:51

Someone would need to take a look how cleanly it merges AND fix the dependency on a certain scaler.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Marzo Sette Torres Junior 
Date:   01-14-13 16:26

I got some time after I fix the blacksmith schedule, so I may take a look at those points. Is there a patch available for v3? I only see the exe for it, and patches and exes for v2.

------
Marzo Sette Torres Junior
aka Geometrodynamic Dragon
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (---.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
Date:   01-15-13 02:11

@Kalos Dragon: sorry for my absent of response. I started looking at the dragging shape not being rotated issue after new year's day. I think i may have a workaround , still trying get the code working.

@Geometrodynamic Dragon: I did not post the v0.3 patch, there wasn;t much change from v2 anyway. Let me try merge this patch with 1.5 CVS snapshot source. Hopefully I can create a 1.5.x patch sooner. I never work with the CVS source before, so I have no idea when the patch will be ready.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (---.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
Date:   01-16-13 06:08


Here is a patch against Excult 1.5 SVN snapshot.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kancv33s31x85t6/exult-1.5-rotate-v0.3.patch

It should work the same as the old 1.4.9-rc9-rotate-v0.3.patch except I enabled a few more scalers. The following scalers should work, finger crossed :)

- Point (2x, 3x , etc),
- Scale2x
- 2xSaI, Super 2xSaI
- Super Eagle

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-16-13 11:22

Thanks a lot.
I had some errors applying the patch:
in gamewin.h
#include "objs/flags.h"
#include "shapes/vgafile.h"
This wasn't a problem before because gamewin.h wasn't included in imagewin.cc before.
(most likely the imagewin/makefile.am just needs "-I$(srcdir)/../shapes -I$(srcdir)/../objs" to AM_CPPFLAGS)

Then this:
drag.cc:233:9: error: no matching member function for call to 'paint'
                gwin->paint(gwin->clip_to_win(rrect));
                ~~~~~~^~~~~
./gamewin.h:446:7: note: candidate function not viable: no known conversion from
      'Rectangle' to 'Rectangle &' for 1st argument;
        void paint(Rectangle& r)
             ^
./gamewin.h:445:7: note: candidate function not viable: requires 4 arguments,
      but 1 was provided
        void paint(int x, int y, int w, int h);
             ^
./gamewin.h:448:7: note: candidate function not viable: requires 0 arguments,
      but 1 was provided
        void paint();                   // Paint whole image.
             ^
1 error generated.


I "resolved" this by replacing
gwin->paint(gwin->clip_to_win(rrect));
with just
gwin->clip_to_win(rrect);
which is probably wrong though...

I made a snapshot for OS X with this patch and the rotate key 'Q' already assigned. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7737184/Exult-snapshot.dmg

Strangeness I found:
- when you drag an object, the object is still left painted at its original point until you let go of the object at its new point (could very well be related to my "fix" above)
- teleport cheat alt+t is not using the new rotated coordinates

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: cma (---.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
Date:   01-17-13 03:33

Try change this:
gwin->paint(gwin->clip_to_win(rrect));
to:
Rectangle crect = gwin->clip_to_win(rrect);
gwin->paint(crect);
insteads and see whether it helps.

For the Alt-t cheat. look inside cheat.cc and add new code after the call to screen_to_game

void Cheat::cursor_teleport (void) const {
if (!enabled) return;

int x, y;
SDL_GetMouseState(&x, &y);
gwin->get_win()->screen_to_game(x,y,gwin->get_fastmouse(),x,y);
(new) if (gwin->rotate) gwin->map_to_rotated_map(x,y); // convert to rotated world

I did not try the cheat keys so assume they do not (yet) work for rotated world. I will update the v0.3 patch to include above changes.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-17-13 20:58

I didn't try anything new out except for getting your last v3 patch and with that all my problems (except for the makefile.am one) are solved.
No compile problem, no dragging ghost on original spot and teleport cheat worked fine, too.

Thanks a lot.
Same snapshot for OS X at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7737184/Exult-snapshot.dmg (still uploading, though) :)

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon 
Date:   01-26-13 15:02

Well ain't that a thing.
Is this truly to be merged into the main project?

It shows that there's still plenty of room for innovation in this old game.

Have a beer on me.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Maenad 
Date:   02-05-13 22:41

This looks absolutely amazing, but I appear to be screwing something up.

I have the exult-1.5-rotate-v0.3.patch file in the patch folder.
I've set the <patch> location to the folder it's in.
I've directed <keys> to my_keys and added the Q toggle_rotate_world line.
The cfg file I'm using is in appdata\local.
I'm using the Exult 1.5.x binary Snapshot for Windows (I'm running 64 bit Win7).

Nothing happens when I press Q. What am I missing?


Long version of file locations for reference:
C:\Users\Me\AppData\Local\Exult\exult.cfg now has:
<patch>
C:\UC\Ultima7\patch
</patch>
<keys>
C:\Users\Me\Desktop\Games\Exult\my_keys.txt
</keys>

and C:\Users\Me\Desktop\Games\Exult\my_keys now has:
Q toggle_rotate_world

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   02-06-13 07:13

You use the exe instead of the exult.exe. The patch file is for compiling exult with the changes in the patch, NOT for using it as a mod/patch

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Maenad 
Date:   02-06-13 18:49

Thanks. I thought that might be the case, but the .exe didn't work for me so I was trying everything.

Running the Exult-rotate-0.3.exe file instead of exult.exe (with it in the same folder) just gives me the message that it's not compatible with my version of windows, and to check whether I need a 32 or 64 bit version.

I tried it with both the 1.5 and the 1.4.9 snapshots just in case it worked with one and not the other, but got the same error.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: DominusMobile2x 
Date:   02-06-13 19:07

Ah, the v3 compiled version of this patch is for the 1.4.9 rc1 version of Exult.
(And the v3 PATCH file is actually for the source code of the snapshot ;))

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Maenad 
Date:   02-06-13 21:45

As a last ditch effort, I just uninstalled and reinstalled, and now it works. Thanks, and sorry to be a bother!

P.S. This is excellent.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Demorde (141.109.120.---)
Date:   04-07-13 17:27

I am attempting to apply the .3 patch to the current svn build (from the downloads page) on Arch Linux 64, but it will not successfully apply. As you can see from the output ( http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=JCQshAWz ) there are a number of hunks that fail and I am not really qualified to fiddle with it to get it to apply correctly.

Any suggestions?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Moorkh 
Date:   05-23-13 23:47

I believe I have a similar problem as stated. I have installed the 1.49rc1 version of exult and have downloaded the 0.3 version (non-1.5) of this mod.
I have not used any patch as I don't think I need to, this already being 0.3.
I have inserted the changes in "my_keys" and exult.cfg.

Yet, when I try to start exult-rotate, I get that error mistake about the version not being compatible to my version of windows (7 64bit) even though vanilla exult works just fine. Any ideas?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   05-24-13 09:35

Similar problem to which post?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Moorkh 
Date:   05-24-13 21:30

To Maenad's. Concerning the error I get when starting exult-rotate-03.exe.
Re-installing didn't do anything for me, though, and I had installed exult freshly in the first place.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: lexicon (59.2.252.---)
Date:   06-03-13 01:58


For me, 'exult-1.5-rotate-v0.3.patch' is not working properly
So I just use exult 1.49rc1 and 0.3. This works fine.

All you need is

Get exult 1.49rc1 and rotate 0.3
Edit exult.cfg and .txt
Start game with Exult-rotate-0.3.exe

And turn on your 'cheat' option in exult (in game)

Then press the proper key 'q'

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   06-03-13 05:26

Moorkh, redownload v3, perhaps that download was incomplete.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Moorkh 
Date:   06-09-13 20:41

Redownloading helped some, thanks - the game now loads.

However, pressing Q still doesn't do anything. I checked that all my paths are correct, and the line in my_keys.txt is exactly as supposed to. Still nothing. There's something about modifying the "correct" exult.cfg, but I didn't quite catch that.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   06-09-13 20:59

Great that it now runs at least :)
see http://exult.sourceforge.net/faq.php#where_cfg for the right cfg to edit

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Torgus Dragon (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date:   06-13-13 01:37

Just to be clear the game is not easily completeable with this mod correct?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   06-13-13 01:43

it should be completeable. The only problem is that the severe crash problem is still in the precompiled exult.
If you apply the patch to current svn and then compile exult you will not have that bug

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Moorkh 
Date:   06-13-13 23:35

That did it! Thank you!
Everything seems to work as supposed, even at 2560x1600. Alas, the effect I noticed on the screenshots - everything seemingly stretched along the vertical axis - is even more grating in the running game. Is there some way I can amend that manually, such as squashing the display along the y axis?

Also, the game's performance suffered strongly compared to vanilla exult. The mouse cursor especially jumps so badly I can hardly hit an icon with it, much less some hidden switch!

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cpe.teksavvy.com)
Date:   07-21-13 11:42

What news?

Is this patch yet of functionality to be merged with the main trunk?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cpe.teksavvy.com)
Date:   09-02-13 10:57

Is it dead? Has anyone heard anything?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   09-02-13 12:49

No news, since the last time. Unless it works with all scalers, it's probably not going to happen

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kelso Draggin (---.cpe.pppoe.ca)
Date:   11-23-13 13:02

Was the code released for this patch?
If so, Shirley we can include in das trunk. Oui?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   11-23-13 13:21

Uhm, yes and no.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Kalos Dragon (---.cpe.pppoe.ca)
Date:   11-25-13 11:08

Clear and concise. Just the way I like it.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   11-25-13 11:32

Seriously? The code patch is somewhere in the long thread, so, yes it has been releases.
And no, we won't include it with trunk because of the reasons right above your post asking for this.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Mortegro 
Date:   04-15-14 04:46

I like it... but prefer the original angle

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Ts McGee (---.cpe.pppoe.ca)
Date:   05-31-14 13:21

I like having the choice.

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   05-31-14 15:55

Kalos can you stick to one nickname, please?

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 Re: Rotate graphics 45 degrees to be upright?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   06-13-14 07:41

I'm closing this thread now for a bit. If anyone wants to revive it or add to it, please send me an email to reopen it.
Right now it's a spam magnet and I hope they soon forget about it again...

Edit: reopened
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