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 Feudal Lands, II
Author: wjp 
Date:   02-06-06 13:06

Started a new thread because of the length of the previous one:

http://exult.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=27637&t=27637

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-06-06 13:18

Sweet, now I get bold text! :D

A revised introduction from our forum. (The Feudal Lands forum: http://www.lfs.lfhost.com/tfl_forum/index.php)

What is the Feudal Lands?
A question I've got more than a few times ^_~

The Feudal Lands is an extension of Ultima VII: The Black Gate
Although it will also include Ultima VII: Serpent Isle, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands is built off the Black Gate. This is mostly because the BG intrinsics are the ones I am most familiar with in usecode.

The Feudal Lands is an Exult mod.
And likewise, requires Exult to run.

The Feudal Lands reintroduces the Virtues to Ultima VII
Unlike other Ultima series games, Ultima VII never had a karma or virtue system. The Feudal Lands will include an extensive Virtue system much alike to the one from Ultime IV: Quest of the Avatar.

The Feudal Lands reinvents the Ultima VII spell system
In Ultima VII, as a part of the story, you did not have any party members that could cast spells; however, when you overcame this barrier in the original, you could still not have spellcasting party members. The Feudal Lands changes this; the Avatar's old spellcasting companion Mariah can join and cast spells, as can Jaana, and even have unique spells. As well, spellcasting is restored to classes that had lost it since Ultima 4, including the Paladin and Tinker.

The Feudal Lands, as it's name implies, adds a whole new world to Ultima VII
In a sense, the Feudal Lands is much a remake of Ultima IV: The Quest of the Avatar. The Lands of the Feudal Lords finds its way back into the Ultima mythos; a place where the Quest of the Avatar endures. New places, enemies and allies alike abound.

The Feudal Lands adds an epic sense to the world of Ultima VII
Clashes against epic foes, foiling the mechanations of evil spellcasters, and fighting against great evils are found once again in an Ultima, something (IMHO) not seen since Ultima III: Exodus.

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Neutronium Dragon (24.70.224.---)
Date:   02-06-06 15:48

> the Paladin and Tinker.

The tinker? I don't recall them being spellcasters originally. Mage, Bard, Druid, Paladin, and Ranger were the ones with casting power, I think.

Neutronium Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-06-06 16:09

Tinkers had some spellcasting power. Just not an awful lot of it. IMHO though, how do you think they forge magic arms and armor in U4? ^_~

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Marzo Sette Torres Junior 
Date:   02-06-06 16:16

Quote:

The tinker? I don't recall them being spellcasters originally.

I had the same recollection as you. But then I decided to check it out, and fired up U4. To my surprise, tinkers *do* cast spells in U4...

------
Marzo Sette Torres Junior
aka Geometrodynamic Dragon
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-06-06 16:29

See? Im not *totally* insane ^_~

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-07-06 15:12

The ground work of the karma system is (finally) finished and working ... check it ou in the latest snapshot:

http://www.lfs.lfhost.com/tfl_forum/viewtopic.php?p=152#152

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-07-06 16:40

Something I'd like to solicit some public feedback on:

In what specific instances in normal U7:TBG would you consider increasing/decreasing the Virtues of the Avatar?

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: MV (---.lns1.bne1.internode.on.net)
Date:   02-07-06 19:10

Decresing is too easy, so I'll put some increasing ones:

1. When you rescue the baby from the harpies.

2. When you promise to keep secrets, (like the sideshow guy and nells' baby, the little girl and the gargoyle she visits), etc.

3. When you do reconciliation tasks, like between the bank woman and her husband that wants to be a pirate, and busting the mayor and his affair with the museum curator, etc.

4. Other things like clearing Tobias' name with the serpent venom..

5. Telling the truth to people.

6. General side quests like the statue in serpents hold, and the sprellic incident in jeholm, the boat builder in minoc.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: MV (---.lns1.bne1.internode.on.net)
Date:   02-07-06 19:16

Oh yea, was anything going to be done with stonegate? I'd like to see something done with it. All that swamp land.........

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Crysta 
Date:   02-07-06 20:07

Stonegate is fine as it is, even if its crumbled into the swamp :P

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Azulmagia (---.adsl.terra.cl)
Date:   02-07-06 20:30

Also, it seems there are limited ways to increase your karma, and unlimited to decrease it. Is that so? I ask this to know if there's a way to "screw up" your chances to max your karma in a game.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: MV (---.lns1.bne1.internode.on.net)
Date:   02-07-06 21:29

Well, how about when the guardian tells you to go in and tell them you are the avatar... (the pub in the desert town in reference to the angry gargoyles).

1. You know the guardian is telling you, so it would be a bad thing to say you are.

2. You would be lying to the gargoyles if you didn't say you were the avatar.

That's a pretty screwed up honesty virtue problem right there.

Also there's somewhere else (I just can't recall right now), that the guy is pissed off about the fake avatar and he asks who you are. But I think that might give the option of telling your name.

And speaking of which, there is another place in the game you are given the choice of giving a false name, actually, I think this is one and the same, and it's in buccaneers den with one of the pirates, blacktooth I think.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Azulmagia (---.adsl.terra.cl)
Date:   02-07-06 21:58

I think the angry gargoyles just demand to know -who- you are. In that case, giving your name would be an honest answer, and it's virtuous to avoid the battle.

Well, then again, i also enjoy killing the dude who stole Lap-lem's jewel. I always make it look like an accident (involving cannons, or some form of explosives usually) and i think i'm pretty virtuous for it.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Enderandrew (12.104.204.---)
Date:   02-08-06 00:05

As far as I can remember (in my current sleep deprived state) the lands seperated before LB came up with the virtues. The virtues weren't invented until Ultima IV.

Given that there is no real travel or communication between the four seperated lands, why would the land of Feudal Lords use LB's 8 virtue system? How did they learn about it?

I think it is a question worth tackling.

And while I want to see this finished before you get buried in a huge project, I would like to see the fourth land added some day as well.

I always imagined the Land of the Dark Unknown to be a high magic area of Sosaria where the various races from earlier Ultimas still live on, as well as strong fantasy villians like Mondain.

You mention that an Ultima game hasn't had a strong villian since Ultima III, but I'd argue that the Shadowlords were powerful villians in Ultima V.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Crysta 
Date:   02-08-06 04:22

about the virtues... how about we just say a wizard did it :P

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: TdI (---.versanet.de)
Date:   02-08-06 04:44

I guess this whole virtue-thing means I'll have to return Morphins serpent venom in the future. :(

Some more suggestions for Virtue

+ Selling venom to the apothecary could increase virtue. (compassion/honesty) This would make extra-sense, if someone wrote a mod, where you can also sell Venom to the mines in Minoc or Vesper for 100 gold (double amount), which would come with a virtue penalty.

+ Killing badies (of course) (valor)

- Killing innocents (valor)

+ Maybe some of the virtue lost when killing innocents should be restored if you res them. (compassion)

-Maybe letting one of your party be killed should come with a virtue penalty. Especially in case of Spark, which would actually be a reason not to allow him into your party. After all, he is a kid. (And Iolos warning would make some sense). I know, in U4 you get a Sacrifice bonus for loosing party members, but this doesnt seem right. I think this bonus should only apply if the Avatar himself dies.

+Healing your comrades after battle(?) (Compassion)

- playing at the house of games (?) (Honesty/Honor)

- joining the Fellowship (?) after all, you don`t HAVE to do that to win, even though the plot follows this line. And it doesnt seem the right thing to do either.

-killing Fellowship fanatics at endgame (there`s also kids among them). They are so weak, you could also evade them or put them to sleep. After all, they are just victims of the Fellowship (Honor/Valor)

-Killing animals and NOT taking the meat. Okay, maybe this is stressing the point ;) but it makes sense. Could be hard to implement though.

-casting "evil" death spells (?)

+baking bread (humility) ;) and picking eggs

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: TdI (---.versanet.de)
Date:   02-08-06 04:48

Its funny how all these ways of affecting Virtue already seem to be in place, as if they actually intended to have Virtue, and discarded it again at some point.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Artaxerxes 
Date:   02-08-06 05:50

let's list the virtues for fun:

* valor
* honesty
* compassion
* justice
* sacrifice
* honor
* spirituality
* humility

sacrifice, you could increase it by giving money to the beggars (now, where did I see that before?)

spirituality, you should meditate at the shrine and strive to attain all spells from the spellbook (it shows you care about it)

humility, tasks like transporting the pumpinks as asked by the farmer eastside of Britain

compassion, strive to fulfill all the side-quests (showing you care for the Britanians)

Artaxerxes

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: 1010101 
Date:   02-08-06 06:41

Hehehehehe...

I read TdI's post above and when I got to this line:

+ Killing badies (of course) (valor)

I thought it said this:

+ Killing babies (of course) (valor)

I was sitting here thinking, "How is killing babies valorous?!?!?!"

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: DrCode (---.mentorg.com)
Date:   02-08-06 09:56

I remember playing U4 and running away from a couple battles. Then when I talked to the fellow who tells you your status, he called me a "craven coward":-)

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-08-06 11:38

Etherandrew - the sundering accoured after Lord British established the Virtues, but far before the Stranger was summoned by him to the Land.

As for some of the answers:

Maybe letting one of your party be killed should come with a virtue penalty. Especially in case of Spark, which would actually be a reason not to allow him into your party. After all, he is a kid. (And Iolos warning would make some sense). I know, in U4 you get a Sacrifice bonus for loosing party members, but this doesnt seem right. I think this bonus should only apply if the Avatar himself dies.

It'd depends. You don't neccesarily let Dupre die in SI, but that's still sacrifice. Also, there will be a few situations where you can choose to protect a party member (+sacrifice +honor +valor) and a few instances where its not the most jsut thing to do (-justice -honor)

casting "evil" death spells (?)

Minus on the Spirituality side.

joining the Fellowship (?)

Minus on the Spirituality and overall karma side. Also, there will be an entire 'evil' story based on that added in, just as joining the Oppression in U5 ^_~

I think the angry gargoyles just demand to know -who- you are. In that case, giving your name would be an honest answer, and it's virtuous to avoid the battle.

But not very valliant ^_~


Crysta - meddle not in the affairs of wizards, for thou'rt tasty when fried with a fireball. xD

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Crysta 
Date:   02-08-06 12:29

uh.. LB established the Virtues just before U4 man... the sundering happened at the end of U1

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-08-06 12:48

Not accoriding to the Ultima manual in my hands :P Although I have to say, the continuity isn't overly great; many sources disagree as to what happened.

But, there are other explanations for the Virtues being present in the Feudal Lands, which I'd say, but it'd be a *huge* spoiler.

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Marzo Sette Torres Junior 
Date:   02-08-06 13:59

That manual must not be very accurate then :-)

More seriously, that manual directly contradicts SI, so that if you go with it you will have to make *substantial* changes to the SI storyline.

------
Marzo Sette Torres Junior
aka Geometrodynamic Dragon
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-08-06 14:04

Like I said, I do have a story that ties it together, but I'm not going to give away any spoilers ^_~

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Crysta 
Date:   02-08-06 14:09

which manual is it?

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: CheshireKatt (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date:   02-08-06 14:52

One thought:

- playing at the house of games (?) (Honesty/Honor)

Gambling itself is neither dishonorable nor dishonest.

Cheating to win would be both dishonest and dishonorable, but you can't cheat in the house of games (technically -- you can by reloading, but the karma system wouldn't be able to catch that) -- while you can wear a fellowship medallion to double your payoffs, that's simply a house rule for fellowship members.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-08-06 14:53

You can cheat at the rat race. Doing so would be dishonest. I wouldnt consider it dishonourable (unless you vowed to play honestly). But I would consider it unjust.

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: TdI (---.versanet.de)
Date:   02-08-06 16:30

>Gambling itself is neither dishonorable nor dishonest.

I wasn't going to move into a discussion about the ethics of gambling. I was rather thinking around the lines of the guys running the House of Games being pirates sponsored by the Fellowship. Possibly even counterfaiters, because of the "Fellowship-member" bonus, but this last part is speculation.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: CheshireKatt (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date:   02-08-06 18:44

>You can cheat at the rat race.

Oh yeah -- forgot about resetting it. Although that's more likely a bug needing fixed than a way to cheat -- the idea of a game of chance with a "no, this was only a practice run" button is rather odd.

>I was rather thinking around the lines of the guys running the House of
>Games being pirates sponsored by the Fellowship.

Do any of the virtues really apply here, though? Would it be unvirtuous to stay in an inn run by a fellowship member in good standing? Or, for that matter, one run by an ex-pirate (it's pretty obvious to me the guys in the House of Games don't exactly sail the high seas anymore)?

Of course, the logic of "spending money that the Fellowship might put to unvirtuous ends" does have merit.

>Possibly even counterfaiters, because of the "Fellowship-member"
>bonus, but this last part is speculation.

True, their ability to conjure endless stacks of gold from the ether is rather sketchy, but also raises ethical questions about the False Coin spell in SI -- is the mere act of casting the spell unvirtuous (or perhaps you simply just want to decorate the Dark Path with stacks of Filari)? Or does it require action (spending on unsuspecting shopkeepers) to be unvirtuous?

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Azulmagia (---.adsl.terra.cl)
Date:   02-08-06 19:30

Quote

Given that there is no real travel or communication between the four seperated lands, why would the land of Feudal Lords use LB's 8 virtue system? How did they learn about it?


Internet.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Sebastian (59.176.26.---)
Date:   02-08-06 21:13

Hmm, no "real" travel maybe, but there may be the odd traveller between the worlds...

About the virtues, bragging about being the Avatar when introducing yourself doesn't really show a lot of humility, now, does it?

Oh, I remember a brief discussion back in the first thread about some Asiatic background for the Lands of the Feudal Lords (an UO idea which was discarded here - even though I think Chrysta's suggestion was really neat, and the idea really good - no reconsidering, Wizardry Dragon ;) ?). It's probably just living amongst the remnants of the glorious days of Rajputs and Mughals (which were all about honour and valour, and really not at all concerned with compassion or humility!) here in India, but in my eyes, an Oriental setting would be really cool and fit in well with the intended epic war setting, I know it's not going to happen in this mod, but still images of the Amber or Jodhpur forts in an Ultima game are...well, enticing...

It's so wonderful that these two mods (Keyring and TFL) are so passionately worked on. Fanatastic work, you guys, the only reason I CAN wait to play these mods at all is that there is still Lazarus bug hunting to keep me busy ;) !

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Neutronium Dragon (24.70.224.---)
Date:   02-08-06 23:21

> casting "evil" death spells (?)

I don't think that any of these were considered evil or affected your karma in previous games, so I don't see why they'd do so now.

Granted, Armageddon might qualify, but if you've cast that then virtue is no longer much of a concern.

Neutronium Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Enderandrew (12.104.204.---)
Date:   02-09-06 01:02

I think the Ultima cannon is pretty clear that the Virtue system is brand new in Ultima IV. That is the whole point of the game, that you are the first to master this brand new system.

The sundering was ages before then.

If you don't want to reveal if for spoilers, that's cool and all. But suggesting that the virtues were around well before the sundering will no doubt annoy the lore fanatics.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Enderandrew (12.104.204.---)
Date:   02-09-06 01:02

Oh, and given the fact that not only do Kilrathi ships appear in UVII, but the "Pirate Warez Hut", maybe they do have internet access.

Ether Wifi

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-09-06 09:19

There are at least a handful of interdimensional/lands/whatever travellers in Ultima: the Avatar, some of his/her companions, Lord British, the Guardian, and Hawkwind. And thats as far as I go into any explanation ^_~

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Crowley 
Date:   02-09-06 09:51

Yeah, especially in Ultima Underworld 2 there were several persons who were aware of the existence of other dimensions and had the capability to communicate between them, if not travel.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: WWWWolf 
Date:   02-09-06 13:02

Ether Wifi? Wasn't there an old joke about mages using the web in Ultima Online through the Ether-Net? Oh well, as they say, you've got to move with the times =)

- Weyfour WWWWolf, a lupine technomancer from the cold north
[a.k.a.: Hoki-Aamrel the Cherry-Red Dragon -==(UDIC)==- ]

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: enderandrew (---.om.om.cox.net)
Date:   02-09-06 14:29

Can you imagine the Slashdot effect on ether?

Maybe that is what REALLY caused the teleportation storms!

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-09-06 14:46

I keep hearing good things about UW2, and its the only Ultima game I havent played. :(

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Crysta 
Date:   02-09-06 16:59

then play it :P

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-09-06 17:10

I havent been able to get my hands on a copy of it, else I would. And since paypal doesnt like me, I cant use the ether-net to get a copy :(

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Enderandrew (12.104.204.---)
Date:   02-09-06 23:57

What about:

Escape from Mount Drash
Ultima:Dark Core
Ultima Runes of Virtue
Ultima Runes of Virtue 2
Worlds of Ultima: Savage Empire
Worlds of Ultima: Martian Dreams

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-10-06 09:27

Dark Core is a fan-fic game, no? But yes, I've played it. I have Savage Empire and Martian Dreams (indeed, one of the main quests is inspired by Martian Dreams) and I supoose -I- dont -have- Runes of Virtue and 2 or Mt. Drash, but my better half does ^_~

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-10-06 16:52

I gave the Feudal Lands forum a -HUGE- facelift, check it out:

http://www.lfs.lfhost.com/tfl_forum/index.php

^___^

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-12-06 13:40

To have released a new snapshot:

http://www.lfs.lfhost.com/tfl_forum/viewtopic.php?p=262#262

(To have spent to much time in the Lazarus forums. To now be stuck talking like a gargoyle xD )

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: SoulFrost (---.ipt.aol.com)
Date:   02-16-06 13:35

Will you still receive virtue if you complete a sub-quest which also gives gain to the Avatar, such as money, magic, or information? Is it virtuous to do the right thing in order to further your own interests? Questions like this are why I love Ultima!

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-16-06 14:17

A new snapshot will come out soon, with the base landscaping for the Lands of the Feudal Lords completed! Keep an eye on this space ^_~

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Warder (---.02-18-756d6511.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
Date:   02-17-06 08:15

Just because someone offers a reward for doing a good deed does not make that deed non-virtuous. Intent is what matters - if you only care about the reward, then you're not virtuous. If you would've done the good deed regardless, that'd be virtuous. Turning down the reward may be a bonus virtuous thing to do, though.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-17-06 08:52

My philosophy is the same as Garriot's - the Virtues are less there to enforce morality in the game, as they are to make the gamer question their actions. As he said, he likes to push people outside of their comfort zones. I do too ^_~

SoulFrost has it right - questions like that are exactly why most people love Ultima .. and I intend in TFL to examing that morality deeply (all while not being at the cost of gameplay).

~ Wizardry Dragon

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-19-06 17:54

The Feudal Lands now have a domain name at www.u7feudallands.com ^_^

--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Paladin (213.42.2.---)
Date:   02-21-06 09:25

Time to update the book marks, eh? :)

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   02-24-06 17:55

The long awaited next snapshot of TFL is available:

http://www.u7feudallands.com/viewtopic.php?p=496#496

There's a ton of new additions in it, including but not limited to: a guard barracks and healers in Virtue's Hold, more implementation of the housing system, a number of conversation and scheduling fixes, a new face for Chahiero (courtesy of koloboko), and work on a second level for Destard.

--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Peter M Dodge 
Date:   03-16-06 07:10

Cross posted from the TFL forums to hopefully solicit feedback ^_^
--------
Not screenshots per se, as these aren't in game; rather, mockups of how I hope to change the interface graphically and functionally.


Did some big graphical finessing on the statusbar. The glow on some of the faces is a way of indicating status - the avatar is magically protected, iolo diseased (new condition - well not new per se, SI had a disease, but it wasn't given a condition handler), Shamino poisoned, Katrina calling for protection, and Jaana protecting.

The speech bubbles are a shortcut to talk to the party members, and the ankh a shortcut to the spellbook (for the avatar), or the spellcasting AI dialogue (for NPCs). The dollar sign by the last party member indicates that's shes a hired mercenary. (yet another thing I plan to add)

The disk icon quicksaves, and the crossed swords icon would bring up the combat modes dialog from SI.



Ztats panel, with some graphical finessing, and two new condition, in this case, poor Iolo is diseased, indicated by the glowing green skull, and bleeding, indicated by the blood drop. Poor, poor Iolo.



Not much to see here, just proving that there IS in fact enough room for SI-style portrait conversation. Party members who interject would be superimposed in the avatar's face area.



My vision of a fixed up spellbook lends itself to eye candy ;)

--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Hammerite (---.cache.maxonline.com.sg)
Date:   03-16-06 07:30

Very impressive! I can't wait for this to be completed so I can play it. i noticed the blue counter on the bottom of some potraits, have you suceeded in implementing spell system for npcs?

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: DrCode (---.mentorg.com)
Date:   03-16-06 10:55

Really very nice! Now you've got to convince someone to program all this:-)

If we were to implement this, I wonder if we could make the window bigger so the status doesn't take up landscape space.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Warder (---.02-18-756d6511.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
Date:   03-16-06 11:03

Yeah, the status window is nice and all, but it takes up -way- too much space on the screen as is.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Crysta 
Date:   03-16-06 13:17

am i the only one who thinks the status window is ugly? T.T

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Peter M Dodge 
Date:   03-16-06 13:30

Very impressive! I can't wait for this to be completed so I can play it. i noticed the blue counter on the bottom of some potraits, have you suceeded in implementing spell system for npcs?

Marzo's been hard at work implementing a spell system for NPCs, complete with AI, and TFL will include this.

Really very nice! Now you've got to convince someone to program all this:-)

The basics shouldn't be that hard, it just involves changing the status bars into a numerical output, and putting some nice graphics behind everything.

A little more difficult would be the talk and spellcasting buttons, and the conditions.

If we were to implement this, I wonder if we could make the window bigger so the status doesn't take up landscape space.

Could easily have a toggle switch to set the background graphics for the statusbar on an off, which could mitigate it, a little.

TFL itself is designed with 400x300 or 640x480 in mind, but any suggestions towards the end of making a more efficient layout are appreciated.

Yeah, the status window is nice and all, but it takes up -way- too much space on the screen as is.

My approach is to take the screen area from a resolution, and then actually use the resolution above it to get the offscreen area for the statusbar.

For example, that graphics above are a 320x200 game screen, on an actual 320x240 draw area (scaled 2x for the sake of everyone's eyes.)

--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: MkM (---.kankaanpaa.fi)
Date:   03-17-06 09:02

I don't like the spellbook. Original was better.
And why there should be talking and spellcasting buttons? (I don't usually like excessional icons and buttons. That's why I loved UVII. Left button=hands right buttons=legs. How about middle button=something?)

from virtues:

I think these acts should be more like the questions from gypsy in Ultima-introductions.

for example: If someone reveals you something bad he/she has done. and you promise not to keep the secret, like I wouldn't. You gain propably Honesty but lose Compassion.

Like in Nell's case and busting the mayor, I would always tell the truth. Truth is the most important thing! (Still I'm not all heartless. I show compassion when I run away the enemies, because I don't want to Kill them :) I killed Sprellic though. But bartender suspected that I did it for the bets! Funny ..and truth!

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Shigzeo (---.sympatico.ca)
Date:   03-21-06 18:42

I was wondering if perhaps the story with the Kilrathy would come through a bit better. I got the feeling that Ultima 7 was large, but after walking about a bit, no one ever travels from town to town, so of course no one realized there was a spaceship. The game is soooo localized, can that be at all fixed?

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Peter M Dodge 
Date:   03-22-06 11:39

It could, but would require -extensive- usecode modification. I may later, but for now, I'm focussing on getting the next milestone done so I can puit out another snapshot ^_~

--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: James Michael 
Date:   03-23-06 17:39

sorry off topic but for the kilrathi thing didn't the farmer kill it???? it does make a person wonder about that if you think about it

---------------------Dark Avatar

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: MkM (193.166.159.---)
Date:   03-24-06 06:45


Mmm... Kilrathi

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Peter M Dodge 
Date:   03-24-06 11:04

The Kilrathi fighter pictured in U7 has a crew of two, Dark Avatar.

Semi-OT: In one of the Wing Commander games, there is a system that mirrors the planets viewed through the orrery in U7 ^_~

--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: James Michael 
Date:   03-25-06 08:43

oh ok...I always thought a drathli had one pilot... this makes me wonder more on what happend with the other pilot now..lol

---------------------Dark Avatar

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Peter M Dodge 
Date:   03-25-06 12:27

The Dralathi had a pilot and a co-pilot.

Always made me wonder in the couple of instances when you flew it alone in WC.

--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Paladin (213.42.2.---)
Date:   03-31-06 10:59

Great progress! This thing should be fantastic when it's done! :D

Anyhow, I got a question regarding your Karma system. Will giving beggars money increase your Karma? I know that many people would probably abuse this by doing all the 'evil' deeds they want and compensating by giving a boatload of money to beggars, but ya know...

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Peter M Dodge 
Date:   03-31-06 11:46

I should note that the karma increase is scaled. If your evil, the most you ever get is a single point of karma from any good deed (which doesn't go far)

As for the mod, sorry for the lack of updates, I've been trying to complete the guilds subsystem's framework before releasing another snapshot.

---------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Paladin (213.42.2.---)
Date:   04-05-06 08:47

Take your time dear sir, I'm sure that many people will prove how much they really want it by waiting patiently for it. ;)

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Tasca (---.bitstream.orcon.net.nz)
Date:   04-06-06 23:53

Is it going to be possible to forge a caddelite sword with your forging system? I always wanted one of those....

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Peter M Dodge 
Date:   04-07-06 11:57

I'm going to wait until the forging system is fully implemented for normal weapons before I do anything fancy with it. ^_~

--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   04-15-06 14:14

Hey there everyone,
First of all, I'd like to apologize for the delay between snapshots, I had been trying to have them released on a fairly regular basis, however I want them to be somewhat stable as well, and as such, I have been waiting until major milestones are stably implemented.

As I have been working on the new guilds system for TFL I have been staving off a new development snapshot until it is both A: somewhat working and B: implemented ingame. Now that I have the code for the guilds system written up, it is simply a matter of implementing guilds ingame and testing the code to find any major bugs and fix them. I hope to have the nmext snapshot out within a week, by the end of the month at the latest. I thank everyone for their patience and hope that you enjoy this large addition to the Ultima VII world.

I would also like to extend a hearty welcome to Justin Durban [www.edgen.com/music] and Rick Balentine [www.scorela.com] who have offered to help compose the original soundtrack for The Feudal Lands. Give 'em a hand folks :)

Finally, I would like to remind people that we are still actively seeking people to help in the development of Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands. We are currently in great need of artists, worldbuilders, and programmers, so if you are interested, please message me on the Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands forums, or email me at twicescorned at gmail.com

--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer,
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands


(ps: the original topic from which this is crossposted is here: http://www.u7feudallands.com/viewtopic.php?p=649#649)

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (72.1.195.---)
Date:   07-11-06 12:19

Well, just so everybody doesn't go and think TFL is dead, it's not.

Unfortunately as I've noted elsewhere, I don't have much of an internet connection (read none at all) so it's been nigh impossible to really keep the website and updates here at all active and up to date.

I have been working on it, however. The first bit of TFL I was working on (the fortress city) is more or less done, I'm just going through the tedious process of debugging all the basic conversations. After that the next step will be to add in the townplot quests.

Hopefully I'll figure a way to post an updatew here at the library, or even better, get my internet back, lol.

Anyways, to summarize: The Feudal Lands is indeed alive.
---------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer,
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Crysta 
Date:   07-12-06 09:32

Still am waiting for your return.

There any graphics or tiles you might need for what you've gotten done?

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (72.1.195.---)
Date:   07-12-06 11:20

Not much more than I had pointed out before. Some different colours of banners and carpets would be nice. And hewn and such walls for the underwall so we can have variety there - see UU for reference, you could even take screenshots from it and use it as a base as the guy doing the SE mod did, but make sure the end product isn't a straight rip - that leads to copyright problems.

Also, if you could take the demon graphics (which should be kicking around in the CVS, if you need help with that Marzo can help) and fix them up, there's a lot of off-by-one pixels that need fixed so the animations don't look funny.
--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer,
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Feudal Lands, II
Author: Equivalential (---.ksc.net.th)
Date:   08-21-06 06:59

On the development of the Virtues...there's a huge amount of time passing between U1 and U7. I think concurrent developments of the same idea by cultures with absolutely no clue what the other side thinks is not entirely impossible? Especially since the big three (Truth, Love, Courage) seemed to have been around before the Serpent Isle was split. If there was shared traffic/tenet between Britannia and the Feudal Lands, then they'd have some partly shared culture, it shouldn't be entirely impossible. I know cultures only tend to diverge with time and seclusion, but that could be the reason why it took the Feudal Lands this long, too? Maybe someone just recovered some ancient records some centuries ago and had a Eureka Moment, and people transformed the ideas over time? Or it developed completely independently from their own growing ideas?

It could just be me thinking of evolution in Australian marsupials, though, and you probably has it fit into a plot already. >_>

(And sir...your project seems like a dream come true. I wish I know how to say these things better. ;_; )

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   08-21-06 11:58

One of the major players in the Feudal Lands is someone that comes from Britannia, and he brings his values with him to TFL. They are NOT universally accepted however - one of the morality type things I want to do with TFL is to contrast the Virtues to another moral system, and unlike U5 I want it to be a valid one.

By the way, the forums are down at the moment - I may have to nuke the database and rebuild, but I'm trying to save things before I go to that extreme ^_^;

--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer,
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Octopusfluff 
Date:   08-21-06 18:21

I really enjoyed the comparison/contrast you get in Ultima 6, looking at the Gargish perspective.

Another way of doing that would be really interesting.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Richard 
Date:   08-26-06 21:30

Where'd virtues come from?

The Wisps did it.

Everyone knows they traded it to the Feudal Lords long ago in return for some kind of armageddon spell.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Paladin (---.emirates.net.ae)
Date:   09-20-06 09:50

What's the point in the Armageddon spell? Other than hearing some dialogue from Lord British and Batlin?

No wait... there IS a point to it... imagine sitting by yourself in your home one day and suddenly, out of the blue, everyone else disappears! The whole city and everything in it is all yours!

Raid the liquor stores, eat everything off the self, all the movies in every video shop are yours to watch. The only bummer is no girls around... but hey! There are alternatives...

I remember in Ultima 9, a scenario like that was mentioned in a book that Richard Garriot wrote in the game (there's one behind the gypsy), it kinda makes me think as to whether or not this fantasy is my own...

But enough of that. It's been a L-O-N-G time since I checked out the Exult stuff and Feudal lands (glad to see it's still being developed), I think I should reorient myself on the changes. :)

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Artaxerxes 
Date:   09-21-06 05:32

believe it or not, I remember reading a comic book where it happened almost exactly as you described it. You wake up one day, feel like not going to work, so you stay home and when you turn the TV, there is "snow". You go outside, there is no one. Stores, malls, gas stations, they're all empty. Although weird at first, you try to take advantage of it, but very soon you realise it's worth that prison... so finally at night, you decide to go to bed and you wake up the next morning and everthing is back to normal. People on the street, TV is working, stores, mall, gaz station, everybody's there... You finally realise that for some unexplained reason, everybody decided that they would skip work and school the previous day.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Dominus 
Date:   09-21-06 05:59

In the recent TV series "My name is Earl" was one episode that is similar. Earl and his gang believed the Y2k hype andbelieved the world would end. So they holed up that new years night, thought the fireworks were explosions. Early the next day they went to the super market and met no one anywhere. They took over the supermarket (since they were the last survivors on earth). The next morning the supermarket opened regulary and Earl & his gang were rudely awakened in their supermarket beds :)

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Paladin (---.emirates.net.ae)
Date:   09-25-06 02:44

Actually, the whole 'being alone in the world out of the blue' has some complications. You see, at first it would be great! You can do and have whatever you want, when you want it, but the problem is, after a while, things will go bad.

Food and drink expires, and electricity is not unlimited (small power generators are there, of course). So basically there will be a 'happy time' at first and then followed by a period of adaption and finally ending with a struggle to survive on your own in an urban jungle.

This actually makes for good story writing, and I like to ponder things that will never happen and see what I would do...

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Dominus 
Date:   09-25-06 04:20

Quote:

Food and drink expires, and electricity is not unlimited (small power generators are there, of course). So basically there will be a 'happy time' at first and then followed by a period of adaption and finally ending with a struggle to survive on your own in an urban jungle.

Douglas Coupland (author of Generation X) picked that up in his weird book "Girlfriend in a Coma". Quite nicely, but weird, but also the very first Coupland book I read.

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Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: DrCode (---.mentorg.com)
Date:   09-25-06 11:16

Well, yes, it doesn't sound good at all. There'd be nobody to dance with:-(
Plus, nobody to make beer, run ski-lifts, write music...

I also remember one of the old Twilight Zone's where this mousy guy was constantly being nagged by his wife, and all he wanted to do was read books. After what looked like an atomic-bomb blast, he was the only survivor. He goes to the library thrilled that all the books survived, only to have his glasses fall off and shatter.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Paladin (---.emirates.net.ae)
Date:   09-26-06 01:40

Quote:

Plus, nobody to make beer,


Ever heard of homebrewing? ;)

Also, why not make your OWN music... hey, you're gonna be alone all your life, so you might as well make the most of it...

Quote:

He goes to the library thrilled that all the books survived, only to have his glasses fall off and shatter.


Now that must really, really suck! He gets everything that he wants except for the tiny little thing that would enable him to get started on it...

Quote:


Douglas Coupland (author of Generation X) picked that up in his weird book "Girlfriend in a Coma". Quite nicely, but weird, but also the very first Coupland book I read.


Hmm, interesting. I think I'll look that book up.

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-09-06 17:27

Stop hijacking my topic! :P

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Petrell 
Date:   10-10-06 03:20

So any progress with the Feudal Lands? The alpha release seem bit behind schedule...

_____________
Obsibian Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Crysta 
Date:   10-11-06 19:19

He said "soon", not "immediately" :P


....

Nah i'm just kidding... well I know at least i've been sick for a while, but that doesn't much affect the programming side of things so Wiz or Marzo woul dhave to answer there :P

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-29-06 16:30

Marzo decided that he was going to redo the spell system, so that puts other plans, including release, on hold. I also want to hold off the release until Justin Durban is done fiddling with the tracks of the original score for us he is working on.

Having a leg that feels like it's been through a meatgrinder twice has put a dent in my immediate work, though, mostly for lack of motivation. Hopefully that won't be a problem much longer.
--------
Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer,
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

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 Re: Feudal Lands, II
Author: Dominus 
Date:   12-30-06 14:05

I'm closing this thread and point to the Feudal Lands forum at http://www.lfs.lfhost.com/tfl_forum/index.php.

This thread always seems to attract our friendly neighbourhood sp...ammers

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Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

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