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 Pentagram still alive?
Author: Ben Shee 
Date:   09-26-10 11:22

Hi everybody. Is Pentagram still being worked on? I've replayed U7 like 2 times now in Exult and I'd love to replay U8 at some point. I know it's not as good as U7, but it's got its upsides (amazing 2d graphics being one of them).

The current builds freeze too much to be playable and it looks like development has pretty much died. I know I could use DosBox but... the expanded view distance in pentagram makes the game so much more epic and easier to traverse.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Eris (---.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date:   09-26-10 21:40

I'm curious to know what the status is, too. After playing Ultima 7 for the first time ever a few years ago (using Exult - thanks for making it a great experience!) I started to play U8 on a real DOS machine, but then put it off. Pentagram was very active then and it seemed at the time like it wouldn't be long until it was ready. But that was years ago.

I see that the Changelog was last updated in January. Has development stalled since then, or is stuff going on behind the scenes that isn't obvious?

More to the point, can I help? I was a programmer in the 90's, but drifted away from it in the 00's. lately I've been getting back into it and trying to learn about game programming: learning C++, SDL, and OpenGL. I'm still getting up to speed, but maybe this is a chance for me to actually do something real.

I see lots of open bugs listed. Are there any that might be easy enough for someone unfamiliar with the code to try and tackle?

Eris

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (---.math.leidenuniv.nl)
Date:   09-27-10 15:10

We haven't spent much time on Pentagram this year, unfortunately. But, on the plus side, things should be working pretty well overall. I personally would be interested in getting back to Pentagram to get rid of the remaining game-stopping bugs and any instability, but it would help a lot if I'm not the only one working on it.

So if you want to help out, that would be very welcome :-)

The first thing that needs to be done is (play)testing to see which bug reports are still valid, and if any new bugs crept in. I don't recall any freezes, so those may have been introduced (relatively) recently. The last few changes likely didn't get enough testing to be entirely stable. After that we can determine how tricky the various issues will be to fix. Some of them will likely be accessible to someone not yet very familiar with the code.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Colourless Dragon 
Date:   09-29-10 06:24

Personally I've lost a fair amount of interest in Exult and Pentagram. It is hard keeping up interest in something for periods of time this long. That said I have been working on Exult a little fixing up problems for the 'upcoming release'... yeah after Duke Nukem Forever doesn't look like that much of a joke anymore. :-(

WRT to Pentagram it mostly just needs lots and lots of polish. Most things work mostly correctly now. The things that dont work properly will probably manifest themselves as really annoying bugs. So it's not dead, just no one is interested enough in doing to 'slow boring' work of just bug fixing.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   09-30-10 16:39

Well, personally I'm deep in Ultima VII in my Ultima playthrough, but I intend to play Ultima VIII with Pentagram once I get to it - so I'll be happy to mention any annoying bug I might encounter at that point.

-Sergorn

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Steven (---.imageworks.com)
Date:   10-01-10 01:10

Id love to beta this game, please send me the info on how to get it. thanks

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Matty (---.socal.res.rr.com)
Date:   10-01-10 04:58

I would be interested in beta testing this game for you guys.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: amazedchili (---.mia.bellsouth.net)
Date:   10-01-10 05:59

I never played any of the ultima games (But i'm curious), I will provide you with a beta tester free of any ultima preconceptions!

C'mon lets do this!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus (not logged in) (---.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)
Date:   10-01-10 06:39

Pentagram can be found at http://pentagram.sf.net

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Matt Hubert (---.vs.shawcable.net)
Date:   10-01-10 10:24

Need anymore beta testers? I'd love to help out.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-01-10 11:45

I did this 4 years or so ago, and found a bunch of stuff that got fixed. Guess I can take another run through things.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-01-10 12:05

Geesh, you have to log-in to report bugs now? That's a drag.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-01-10 13:52

OK, I spent an hour throwing myself off cliffs, running into things, and throwing molotov cocktails at peasants, and reported a bunch of bugs. I'll start progressing further into the game at a later date.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: GuJiaXian 
Date:   10-02-10 00:23

I tried playing U8 via DosBox not long ago, and what stopped me from playing much were the controls. Movement was so twitchy, and I hated the need to stop moving to turn. Is there any way Pentagram to improve the movement in the game?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-03-10 08:03

No there has been no change in that respect - Pentagram plays pretty much exactly as UVIII does.

-Sergorn

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: GuJiaXian 
Date:   10-03-10 12:40

That's unfortunate...the controls are what's keeping me from playing through the game again.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: TDI (---.versanet.de)
Date:   10-03-10 13:01

> That's unfortunate...the controls are what's keeping me from playing through the game again.

Compared to U7 the Avatar in U8 does move very clunky. But you get used to it. Moving around quickly isn't that important in this game either, as monsters are just as slow and clunky. Anyway, if you want to play U8, I recommend getting over this. U8 is definitely not enjoyed for its movement and combat. But its dark, moody plot and mystical world make up for it.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Korneluk (---.222-56-74.mc.videotron.ca)
Date:   10-03-10 15:48

^^yeah,
I just replayed it. 3rd time through, and especially enjoyed the mood+music. There are some awful dialogues and a sore lack of NPC's, but the movements, while occasionally frustrating-where you get pinned against a wall or go for a swim, are secondary to the creepy feeling that surrounds you. I recommend playing at night.....
You're hopefully not playing without the patch. My first time through there was no auto-target on the jumps for me! That was evil.

I didn't use Pentagram as their site seemed to indicate some lack of playability and I didn't find the extra features implemented worth the trade off.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: BansheeX 
Date:   10-04-10 00:32

The problem with U8's movement mechanics are well known and could probably be rectified as an "enhancement" option. Basically, just look at what Ultima Online does for movement and copy that. You can move in 8 directions, and if you're changing course by more than 1 direction, you should not have to stop or see the inbetween animations. Creep mode triggering when your cursor gets too close to the avatar is infuriating, particularly when you're going through close confines like houses. Creep and run mode should both be triggered by holding down a key like shift and ctrl respectively. Finally, there should be an "Always run" mode.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-04-10 17:24

Heh, personally while I had issues with Ultima VIII - I don't think I never had any issue with its movement mechanics.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-04-10 18:12

I've been fiddling around with Pentagram, and I'd say the movement mechanics there are improves. I sometimes have problems getting through doors though.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (---.121-176-91.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
Date:   10-07-10 21:29

We've tried to tweak the movement a little bit, but it's quite tricky.

Typical things are holes in the floor you have to be able to fall through: if we adjust the movement too much, the Avatar will walk around the hole rather than fall through. Then there are stairs... I think going up stairs is walking quite well, but running down stairs is still a bit of an issue.

I'd be open to adding different approaches to movement to Pentagram (selectable with a config option), but I'm personally not going to implement it.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-08-10 01:20

I've been well abusing your bug-tracker the last few days, hopefully that gives you another person's opinion on the whole thing. I wish some of the others from this thread would get on there and start abusing pentagram too.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   10-08-10 14:52

Yes, I noticed :-)

Thanks; it's very useful. I've taken a first look at a number of them, but haven't had much time yet this week.

What's your overall impression? How far in the game did you get?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-08-10 15:52

Well, I've only just entered the catacombs at this point, so I'm about to start talking to the deceased necromancers. Gameplay is stable, and I haven't managed to crash anything that didn't crash in the original. I have managed to crash the original Ultima VIII dosboxed though, twice. As far as I can tell, everything is supported.

Movement, well, despite the bugs I've posted, I'd say it's compares to the original. Going through doors can sometimes be troublesome, since you need to line the Avatar up just right. I also find the Avatar has a nasty habit of throwing himself off ledges with far more gusto than he did in the original.
This is especially noticeable when trying to walk up thin staircases that don't have railings on either side, one wrong move and the Avatar slips off.

I do miss the graphics and sound settings that are present in Exult. It'd be nice if I could adjust things from the in-game menu. I'd also love to see an expansion of the savegame menu, like you did for Exult. Maybe just offer me two or three more pages, and a screenshot, so I can remember where the savegame was.

I'd love to see a release.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-08-10 17:17

Well personally I'll hopefully be beginning U8 through Pentagram in a few days - altough my intent is to play it "normaly" to see how a normal play through goes.

I'll report any issue I find, but I won't be seeking ways to crash the game though heh.

And yeah I certainly hope garphical options comparable to Exult down the road - I'd love to able to run it in 1360x768 HQ3X like Exult someday heh

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-08-10 21:09

Aww... it's fun. You'd be surprised what a well-placed molotov cocktail can do.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-08-10 22:20

Heh - to be fair I never went crazy with the stuff even in the original game, so I probably wouldn't be able to detect any weirdness on Pentagram with this stuff.

-Sergorn

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-09-10 01:24

Gah, WHO thought it was a good idea to just stick pit traps that instantly kill the Avatar randomly throughout the Hall of the Mountain King?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: BansheeX 
Date:   10-09-10 20:10

I don't know how it's so stable for you guys. I'm running on Win7 64-bit and it freezes all the time. Sometimes it freezes within 5 seconds.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (---.speed.planet.nl)
Date:   10-09-10 20:14

BansheeX:

Is there anything in stdout.txt/stderr.txt after a freeze?
Could you try without audio? (midi_driver=disabled in pentagram.ini)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (---.speed.planet.nl)
Date:   10-09-10 20:49

I've just done something I should have done a long time ago, and made the menu display 96 savegame slots instead of U8's 12. I didn't test it extensively yet, so let us know if it works :-)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-09-10 22:02

96 save spots? SWEET! I'll try it out when the new snapshot gets uploaded. You stick an image on there somewhere too to remind me of what I was doing at the time, and I'll never complain about the savegame feature again.

I've now saved Devon, met Lithos, and retrieved the Heart of Earth. Still haven't had a crash yet that wasn't present in the original.

I'd also love an option to enable and disable the cheat menu. It's a fantastically useful tool for trying to break the game, and I use it all the time in dosbox too, but it's super annoying how often I turn it on while trying to climb ledges that are too close to me.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-13-10 11:39

Well I've finished Serpent Isle so I'll be starting UVIII with Pentagram soon. I'll report any issue I come across.

-Sergorn

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   10-13-10 17:20

Please do :-)

Gruck has submitted enough bug reports to keep me busy for a while, but more testing is always welcome.

We don't have hq3x though.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus1 (---.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)
Date:   10-13-10 18:03

We should have... ;)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-13-10 19:40

That would certainly be awesome.

One question: I assume the answer is a "no", but is there a way for the minimap content to be saved when leaving a zone? I love this gump, and it's very useful for exploring an area, but since it becomes black again it renders it a bit pointless.

I've only played an hour or so - but one thing i've noticed is when I have a chest exploring due to a trap, it jumps up, but don't seem to get back down. I think it happened in U8 as well but I had it with every chest I tried here heh.

Also I attacked Corinth north of Tenebrae and oddly enough Beren didn't come to kill me. Which I thought he was supposed to do there. Not sure (it's been too long since I played U8 to spot all possible differences)

-Sergorn

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck/Dungy (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-13-10 21:13

Confirmed in the original. You can kill peasants with wild abandon north of Tenebrae. What I have noticed in Pentagram is almost everything from the original works beautifully. I think I've only reported one plot-related bug, and that turned out to not actually be a bug at all, but a quirk with higher resolutions. Mostly it's gameplay issues I've been reporting.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   10-13-10 21:25

Stuff sticking to walls/ceilings: one of our more annoying long-standing open bugs. I've spent some time on it tonight, and got about halfway through fixing it I think.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-13-10 21:36

May I ask what's the quirk with higher resolution?

(I'm not using such a high resolution - merely 800x600 but I wonder.)

-Sergorn

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck/Dungy (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-14-10 00:30

Don't want to spoil all the details on here, so this explains it quite well. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3084511&group_id=53819&atid=471709

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck/Dungy (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-14-10 02:15

Finally finished Ultima VIII. All of the major quests seem to be working, and I only had one actual crash occur the entire time. There just seems to be a lot of little niggling gameplay issues which I've been reporting, and I plan on doing some major screwing around with the engine over the next couple of days. Still, I'm quite impressed. Good job folks!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   10-14-10 06:31

Great! Thank you very much for playing through Pentagram, and with such attention to detail.


Two more known hi-res bugs:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1106397&group_id=53819&atid=471709
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1104271&group_id=53819&atid=471709

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-14-10 12:08

One issue I'm onticed, which my be related to the one about falling in Holes:

The hole east of Tenebrae where you to the Slayer Mace - on first try I couldn't fallinto the all. I didn't fall "naturally" by just staying on the hole and walled over it - after that however I couldn't seem to the avatar to fall down.

I solved the issue by reloading a save and having my Avatar stay right ine the center while the hole is collapsing, but I felt it was worth mentionning.

-Sergorn

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   10-14-10 16:06

Yup... that's exactly the thing I meant in my 10-07-10 21:29 post. So in some cases we "jump down" too soon (stairs) and in others not soon enough (holes). It needs more fine-tuning, it seems.

Thanks for pointing out a specific troublesome location.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   10-15-10 21:22

I think I've fixed the items getting stuck on walls/ceilings, but since it's a rather low-level change, I hope it doesn't break related things. Please pay special attention to this when testing.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-16-10 08:25

I'm now at the Obsidian Fortress.

Everything works very fine thus far!

One bug I've noticed - being closed to the Mandril when they make sound on Argentrock Isle slow the game to a crawl. I do seem to remember this happening in the original UVIII though.

I've noticed the issue about holes on other occurence too - I do feel that's the realy major issue here - since there are a couple of mandatory holes you need to fall through, so you can get stuck.

Also it seems the Changeling never appear to change to the appareance of the Avatar.

Other than that, I really can't think of any issue - I didn't get the hi res related bugs either - it's very much like I remember the original U8

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   10-16-10 10:10

Do you still have the coordinates of the troublesome holes? (Either in numbers or a description.) For testing purposes such a list would be good to have.

Changelings: You're right; I think we never got around to implementing shifting to the Avatar. Looking at the code they'll only shift to a tree currently.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dungy/Gruck (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-16-10 10:17

Geesh, did I forget to report Changelings. Yeah. They refuse to turn into the Avatar.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-16-10 11:39

The exact coordinates no, but I can tell you where they are:

* The hole leading to the cave holding the Slayer Mace, east of Tenebrae.
* The hole in the Catacombs leading to the are with the first dead necromancers
* The hole you need to dig with the "Open Ground" spell in the Shrine of te Ancient One

This kind of let me to think that that this issue should come up with any hole with size, though I can't quite think of another one to test.

-Sergorn

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-16-10 14:30

Okay I finished Ultima VIII! Great job with Pentagram really!

Now a few other things I have noticed:

I used the spell to kill undeads on a skeleton in the Obsidian Fortress. And oddly enough it also killed a ghoul that was nearby. Speaking of which I seem to recall non-Sorcery magic was not supposed to be working in the Fortress, but this might have been changed with the patch.

In Lithos' city of the dead where you get the Heart of the Earth. The bench there looked as if they were floating on the air rather than the ground.

I first used the spell to get in the void while in Tenebrae with Pyros' sending his flames and such... and this lead to a reddish screen in the Ethearal void which it shouldn't have.

The credits did not start after seeing the Ending as they should have.

Now this is an already existing U8 bug, but I was thinking perhaps there is a way to have Beren's conversation when you first get to the Demon's crag fixed to work properly? I'm pretty sure this was caused by the patch actually since I do remember having the full speech the first time I played U8

In any case these were all minor issues.

On the whole I've been very impressed with Pentagram - it really did felt like playing the actual game except with higher resolution which is nice.

I would say if the major issues (that would be holes and hires bugs) gets fixed and a more user friendly config tool is integrated, I would say this could very much be release as it as 1.0 version.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (---.speed.planet.nl)
Date:   10-16-10 18:52

Great!

Do you have savegames for these issues? Especially just before going to the Ethereal Void with the red glow, and before Beren's talk would be useful.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (---.speed.planet.nl)
Date:   10-16-10 20:24

Strange: I've just tried the Slayer hole, and have no trouble at all falling through when walking with the medium-sized arrow.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: BansheeX 
Date:   10-17-10 04:33

Sorry for the late reply. When it freezes, the console usually says this:

"try to access stack of non-existant process. (pid: 1)
process 1 caused an error. killing process..."

It doesn't always freeze when it says this, just sometimes. Basically, I can't move, but everything around me can. So it's not a total game freeze.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: BansheeX 
Date:   10-17-10 04:52

I upgraded to the 2010 build and haven't encountered the freezing anymore. Will let you know if I do.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (---.math.leidenuniv.nl)
Date:   10-17-10 09:59

gruck, Sergorn: did either of you encounter issues like this one?
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2104283&group_id=53819&atid=471706

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (---.math.leidenuniv.nl)
Date:   10-17-10 10:00

BansheeX: that's a very puzzling error message, since it contradicts itself. We've had a similar report back in 2008: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2104649&group_id=53819&atid=471706

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: gruck/dungy (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-17-10 10:12

No, I never has a problem with cutscenes.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (---.math.leidenuniv.nl)
Date:   10-17-10 10:17

Thanks; looks like shadowchaser's patch indeed fixed that then.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-17-10 10:37

I have a save priori to the Ethereal Void - not to sure about getting before Beren though, I'll have to look.

Regarding the hole, I've just tried again the one fo the Assassin. ANd of course It worked this time! So I'm not sure.

And like Dungy, I never had any problem with the cutscenes, they all worked like they should.

-Sergorn

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (---.math.leidenuniv.nl)
Date:   10-17-10 12:27

A savegame for Beren turns out not to be necessary. Simply teleporting to 25 20248 24760 64 will already let you trigger his conversation. It did work entirely when I just tried it in Pentagram, though. I seem to recall this scene being rather buggy in the original too, by the way, so it could be that the scripts running it aren't very robust, or depend on the avatar position or something.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-17-10 14:04

Well according to the Ultima wiki:

"Beren's dialogue, when reaching the lava river after cooling it partly off, is buggy. Most of his lines vanish. The cause are flag problems. This can be avoided by either never talking to him, or angering him in Tenebrae and denying an apology. "

I seem to recall having the full line the first couple of time I played Ultima VIII before the patch, so I always thought this was a bug triggered by it.

Now since this is an already existing but in U8, it's not exactly important for Pentagram to fix that, but I figure it might be nice if that's doable without too much hassle.

-Sergorn

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   10-17-10 14:44

Looking at the usecode, it seems quite intentional that he doesn't really speak to you if you've already met Beren (unless you angered him). There's no text for the situation that he does know you (except if he's also angry.)

The opening lines are:

Very angry: "Foolish one. You have journeyed far to come to your death in this place. I can only assume that you were the idiot who sent torrents of water flowing through this cavern. And I suppose you were unaware that this chamber is our first deterrent against possible incursions from the outside world. You will die for your ignorance, knave!"

A bit angry: "I can only assume that by your presence here that you were the fool who caused torrents of water to come flowing through this chamber. "

Haven't met: "I know not who you are, but you are quite resourceful to have come to this place. Welcome to the Mouth of the Daemon. This cavern was once the first test for those wishing to join the Sorcerer's Cabal. Someone... has rendered it mostly useless by directing an underground river this way. Quite a remarkable thing to do, don't you agree? "

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: MeddlingMonk 
Date:   10-17-10 15:43

I'm having a problem with building Pentagram in Mac OS 10.5.8 (PPc). The actual compiling works just fine. There are no errors and the binary runs just fine, but making an app bundle fails. The complete output when trying 'make bundle' is:

common.mk:42: warning: overriding commands for target 'clean-tools'
common.mk:42: warning: ignoring old commands for target 'clean-tools'
make: *** No rule to make target 'bundle'. Stop.

The last time I built Pentagram on my Mac was back in February. Making the bundle worked then. Something may have changed but me looking at line 42 of common.mk wasn't very enlightening.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   10-17-10 16:59

Meddling you can't yet "make bundle" with Pentagram, when you build Pentagram the unix way (./configure && make).
Only if you do it with watt's special makefile.macosx can you "make -f makfeile.macosx bundle".
I'll see about adding the bundle option next week or so.

--
Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.70.192-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-17-10 19:14

I'd actually wonder if the "bit angry" line isn't the one supposed to be there in regular case - It would seem logical considering you can only get the deamon's crag after Hydros has been freed.

But in any case it really feels like you're missing some dialogue when Beren talk to you. Not a big deal (and of course it's an issue in the original game in any case) but well... It'd not like UVIII doesn't have a lot of plot holes and such in any case :P

-Sergorn

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: BansheeX 
Date:   10-17-10 19:29

There's nothing wrong with fixing bugs that were there in the original game if they obviously weren't intended to be there. I think it's more important to deliver "how they intended it to be" than "how it was". Otherwise, I wouldn't be using Pentagram, I'd be using dosbox. Still, I understand people's aversion to making improvements without the consent of the original designers. I rather liked all the modest little improvements exult made to U7, like the party healthbars and such while anything that would have changed a core element of the game was made optional, like arranged music and replacement graphics.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck/Dungy (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-18-10 02:40

By the way, I love the changes you made to gravity. Things are no longer getting stuck in walls any more, and that makes things far more fun.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (143.169.49.---)
Date:   10-18-10 08:10

Good to hear :-)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (143.169.49.---)
Date:   10-18-10 09:30

Looking through the bug tracker some more... did you encounter this bug?

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2805328&group_id=53819&atid=471706

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck/Dungy (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-18-10 10:29

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2805328&group_id=53819&atid=471706

Did not occur with me. The Avatar walked to the correct position, but that post tends to imply the Avatar was outside of the main building when he talked to Vividos. I'll check that out.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck/Dungy (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-18-10 10:43

I think I figured out the person. The problem is using the arrows keys to move instead of walking properly often messes up the game. I redid the final scene before talking to Vividos while holding the dagger, but instead of walking to Vividos, I moved to Vividos with the arrow keys. Vividos was outside of the main building, and not beside Lothian like he is meant to be. That caused the entire cutscene to become messed up. I restored the same game and then walked properly to Vividos upon entering the Graveyard, and Vividos was in the appropriate position and the cutscene proceeded normally.

The same error can be found in the scene where you are supposed to inter Lothian. If you used the arrow keys instead of walking, then Lothian will still be on the slab when you are supposed to inter her, and not in the correct position.

This bug is solely due to cheating, since it causes the player to miss some important egg that must be located somewhere between the entrance to the graveyard and Vividos's position.

I'll post a savegame where the Avatar has the dagger and meets Vividos in the wrong position to the bug-tracker.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck/Dungy (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-18-10 10:49

OK, I'm not allowed to post a save game to that report for some reason, but I think you should be OK.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (143.169.49.---)
Date:   10-18-10 11:22

Thanks for the analysis!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: MeddlingMonk 
Date:   10-19-10 02:01

Dominus, I'm a fool. It's been so long I'd forgotten the correct way to build Pentagram on a Mac. Thanks for the reminder.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.208.197-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-21-10 19:20

On a side note, I forgot to mention that I used Quicksave extensively while playing the game and it didn't cause any issues.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   10-21-10 19:50

Good to hear. Our savegame system should allow saving at any time whatsoever, including during cutscenes.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Sergorn (---.208.197-77.rev.gaoland.net)
Date:   10-21-10 19:52

Aye aye, I did try saving during cutscenes and it worked :)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck/Dungy (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-21-10 20:48

Ghost sub-plot
I've been wanting to test the ghost sub-plot, but I can't seem to remember what steps need to be taken. I talked to Darion who said to talk to the herdsmen about the ghost. I talked to the two individuals in the area north of Tenebrae, but Corinth refuses to mention the topic and Gwillim just tells me to bugger off. My understanding is they were supposed to be a little more forthcoming. I assume this is something on my part I'm doing wrong since I'm having the same problem in the original U8, but can anyone help me out with this subquest?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   10-21-10 20:57

The basic path in the official clue book is:

Orlok
Jenna
Darion
Gwillim
Corinth
Gwillim
Cave (try to open door)
Gwillim
Kilandra 3x
grave


I think there was possibly a need to complete some of the plot as this quest has also caused me problems in the past. You need the aerial servant spell to actually retrieve the armor as far as I know.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   10-21-10 21:05

You should be able to have Corinth tell you that Gwillim saw the ghost at this point.

If I read the usecode correctly, this should be the conversation with Corinth:

------

What do you do?

"As we live in the country, away from most people, I do many things. Since my son did move away I am not as busy as I once was. "

Your son?

"My dear Cyrrus. I am so proud of him. His father and I are but simple people. But Cyrrus will do great things. "

Simple folk.

"Look about you, my lord. Does this look like the home of a wealthy family? Ours are not easy lives, yet we are proud people. Not many can do what we do. And our family has lived in this valley and worked the land for generations. "

You've been here for generations?

"Oh yes. There used to be a great many families that lived in the valley. But that was long ago. Now, only Gwillim and I are left to keep the legacy of the valley alive. "

What happened to the others?

"Well, there was a great war long, long ago. That was the beginning of the end, I suppose. Since that time, many people believed that the land was cursed. Many people died and many others moved away. "

Cursed? By a ghost, perhaps?

"Yes! How did you know that? "

----

After this it doesn't matter what you say, and you should be able to confront Gwillim about it.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Gruck/Dungy (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   10-21-10 21:09

Thanks, I need to try this out!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   10-21-10 22:49

There is no message about not finding Ultima 8 data files in either the installer or Pentagram. Pentagram will just show a too quick to read startup text and the Pentagram background.

I can't seem to find any output files in Windows XP. I thought they used to exist.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   10-29-10 14:56

@MeddlingMonk, I added the necessary stuff to the normal build system.
So with "./bootstrap", "./configure", "make", "make bundle" you should succeed now.
This will only make a dynamic built, only working on your machine, but for making a static built you need to
"./configure --with-macosx-static-lib-path=pathtoyourstaticlibs(for example /opt/local/lib for macports and /sw/lib for Fink)"
then "make bundle" and if you want a snapshot image, "make image".

If you have more questions on this, please open a new thread (as to not clutter this too much with built things).

--
Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Corpsecrank (---.zoominternet.net)
Date:   11-20-10 19:17

This working with win7 64? I been itching to play u8 again. This is one project I would love to see turn out like exult did.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus (not logged in) (84.119.84.---)
Date:   11-20-10 20:47

Why shouldn't it work on Windows 64bit? Almost all 32bit programs work in 64bit Windows...

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: MeddlingMonk 
Date:   11-20-10 21:07

It works for me on Windws 7 64 bit. (Although it doesn't on Fedora 14 64 bit. Just freezes on startup. Pentagram, not the computer.)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Corpsecrank (---.zoominternet.net)
Date:   11-21-10 15:31

"Why shouldn't it work on Windows 64bit? Almost all 32bit programs work in 64bit Windows..."

Well I wasn't concerned about the fact it is 64bit. I was more concerned with if it were compatible with my OS or not. I understand that most 32bit apps run fine in 64bit environments.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Rafaelvetuff (---.user.veloxzone.com.br)
Date:   11-22-10 22:14

Anyone having problems with the use of sorcery in pentagram? Thanks

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   11-22-10 23:04

I'm guessing you do? If so, please explain the problem.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Rafaelvetuff (---.user.veloxzone.com.br)
Date:   11-23-10 12:37

LOL!
Yes, wjp, im having this problem...
Thing is, i put the reagents, candles, focus and so on and click on the pentagram and it just wont work... If I step into the pentagram and click it, I receive the message that im standing too close. If it lacks reagents, again, I receive the message that it lacks reagents and so on. But if everything is fine, nothing happens...
Any hints?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (143.169.49.---)
Date:   11-23-10 13:34

Do you have the patched version of Ultima 8? (2.12 or higher)

It's hard to say what might be wrong from your description. Could you send us a savegame?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Rafaelvetuff (---.user.veloxzone.com.br)
Date:   11-23-10 14:13

Sure. Which email?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp_ (143.169.49.---)
Date:   11-23-10 17:12

(I got the savegame.)

Interesting... it's failing because the ObjID of the focus is greater than 32767. I'll have to look at this in more detail. I filed a bug report on our bug tracker to make sure I don't forget.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   11-23-10 18:01

Was in a bit of a rush earlier... translation: the game's scripts are doing something wrong, but it's possible that's because we're putting them in an unexpected situation. (Or it could be an actual U8 bug.)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Rafaelvetuff (---.user.veloxzone.com.br)
Date:   11-23-10 18:20

To those not instructed in the programmers language it means? LOL
Thanks for the hurry! :-)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Rafaelvetuff (---.user.veloxzone.com.br)
Date:   11-23-10 18:31

Oh, just now I noticed youve already translated! Lol!
So, whats your suggestion? Thanks again!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: wjp 
Date:   11-25-10 00:22

I've committed the first part of a fix for this, but that only affects new games, not existing savegames. Still thinking about if it can be fixed for existing saves.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Rafaelvetuff (---.virtua.com.br)
Date:   11-26-10 08:09

Hey, good news! Ive downloaded the new version of pentagram, opened the old savegame and... Voil! It worked just fine! Thanks a lot!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: JC Denton (---.dynamic.sbb.rs)
Date:   11-26-10 11:30

Hello!

I have one question concerning Pentagram project, but it's not about Ultima. It's about another game running on (somewhat modified) Ultima VIII engine - Crusader series (No Remorse and No Regret).

I've seen some screenshots of Crusader on the Pentagram website, and I'm wondering how did you do that. :) Also, what I've seen looked like a level editor...

I've tried some .ini file editing, but all I got is Crusader: No Remorse being listed in Pentagram menu. When I click on PLAY GAME, something happens for a brief moment, and then it crashes with no error.

Any thoughts?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   11-26-10 12:44

Read the first F.A.Q.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: JC Denton (---.dynamic.sbb.rs)
Date:   11-26-10 13:03

I read FAQ at http://pentagram.sourceforge.net/faq.php , but didn't find anything that could answer my question above. Or am I missing something?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   11-26-10 13:09

It's spelled out pretty clearly in 1.1, "Right now we do not support them".

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: JC Denton (---.dynamic.sbb.rs)
Date:   11-26-10 13:26

Yeah, I read that part. I didn't expect to be able to play the game, but rather to experiment. As I said - saw some screenshots, and felt the urge to ask how. :)

Anyway, no big deal. I was just hoping that there's an easier way for us to try and make a new Crusader game (currently we're using GameMaker 8 and writing our own stuff).

Thanks anyway! :)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   11-26-10 14:36

I have no idea how much work still needs to be done on Crusader compatibility. I looked at the change log and the last mention of Crusader is about 4 1/2 years ago. If your team has actual coding skills, then it would probably be much better contributing to Pentagram.

(I don't even have Crusader.)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: JC Denton (---.dynamic.sbb.rs)
Date:   11-26-10 15:17

Well, I'm not much of a programmer. I'm the guy in charge of graphics and animation. My "job" is to extract original resources from .flx files, and then import them in GameMaker by creating sprites and animating them (original animations + some custom stuff...). Also, I'm doing some additional writing and helping craft a storyline.We have one "full time working" programmer, and few other guys who are willing to help... Anyway, the whole project is in very early stages of development, and currently we're working on a tech demo which will focus on movement and interaction with objects.

If I understand correctly, Pentagram project is all about running Ultima VIII engine-based games on modern systems. What we are doing is creating a whole new game (new engine, new story, levels,...), so I don't see how it would be better for us to dedicate our time to Pentagram Project.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   11-26-10 16:05

Pentagram is a new engine that can use the original game files directly. Your use of the original resources is a big no no. Of course, YoYo games doesn't really care and would host it anyway unless it got a cease and desist order.

Pentagram likely needs a lot of work to run Crusader or create a similar game. You'd also have to make a map editor anyway. I have no idea how creating a similar game in GameMaker would be. GameMaker games also seem much more resource intensive than needed and have much less platform support than SDL.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: JC Denton (---.dynamic.sbb.rs)
Date:   11-26-10 16:37

As I said - my programming skills are a bit rusty, so I left that part to some other guys who are better than me in that department. We're already thinking about using some compression methods and some other ways around some of the performance issues.

As for using original resources and potential copyright infringement problems, we had that discussion pretty much right at the beginning of our project. We intend to create a free fan-game, using resources from 15 years old DOS game which hardly generated any profit for EA for the last 10+ years, so we hope that no one cares. :D Anyway, we'll probably send an e-mail to EA and formally ask for their permission.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Rafaelvetuff (---.user.veloxzone.com.br)
Date:   12-09-10 17:25

Hey, its me again with another problem... So, I started all over a new game cuz the sorcery issue was hard to solve, but it was OK... So, suddenly, in the middle of the game, pentagram starts to crash! As I walk throught Tenebrae the game crashes with no explanation! Ive emailed the savegame to wjp but got no answer, so I presume he is busy with something else and probably not acessing emails or I was dumped to spam or else... Lol! Anyway, anyone here could help? Thankz

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Rafaelvetuff (---.virtua.com.br)
Date:   12-12-10 00:30

Anyone?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   12-12-10 00:47

Is it only one crash or is it repeatable? If it is repeatable, then post a bug report, with information about your operating system and how to repeat it. Then attach the save file.

What do you mean by crash? Does it close the program? Is there an assert error? Does the program freeze? If it seemed to freeze, can you save the game and reload? There is a known bug where the Avatar will no longer move but the game is otherwise fine.

If it's not repeatable, unless you have some really good information, it likely won't be fixable.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Rafaelvetuff (---.user.veloxzone.com.br)
Date:   12-12-10 16:31

Yeah, it is repeatable, its just walk around tenebrae and the game closes... I can send the savegame, but im having trouble using the link, could u direct me a email? thnx

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   12-12-10 18:15

Send the saved game to the address in my profile. I will add a bug tracker for it. I didn't realize Pentagram trackers had been closed to anonymous posters. What operating system are you using?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Rafaelvetuff (---.user.veloxzone.com.br)
Date:   12-12-10 20:15

Windows 7...
Ill send it now, open the game, recall to central tenebrae and walk to east tenebrae, for exemple... You will see what I mean... Thanks

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   12-12-10 20:37

Unfortunately, I can't even test to confirm the crash since my version of Ultima 8 is 2.13 (came patched) and yours is 2.12. I setup a bug tracker though.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Corpsecrank (---.zoominternet.net)
Date:   12-19-10 05:48

I think there is a version of 2.12 online for download and since you own the game it would be legal for you to download a copy of it. You may want to consider keeping an older copy around just for testing purposes.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   12-19-10 07:10

It's not legal to download even if you own the game. You would have to have written permission from the current rights holder (EA) or buy it. The patch will not change 2.13 to 2.12.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Wizardry Dragon (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   12-19-10 20:30

Having copies of a game you own is permitted by the EULA: one for backup purposes only, that is. However, only Electronic Arts has distribution rights to the program. Any other entity distributing it, is doing so illegally.
--------
Peter M Dodge
aka Wizardry Dragon
www.thefeudallands.ca

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: paulo (89.181.153.---)
Date:   01-25-11 23:57

Any plans for a exult game studio like editor? U8 is a game that would benefit quite a lot from a "expansion mod". The lost valley, the strange broken dialogs, the truth spell plotholes, freeing hydros having no consequence to devon, the birthplace of moriens in the wrong place and without anything of interest there, no extra earth promised spells etc etc etc.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Doppelganger (---.tampabay.res.rr.com)
Date:   10-25-11 03:27

Im going to sound like a complete noob for the first time in a while, but I bought a new copy of U8 and downloaded Pentragram and can't get it to work on Win7! Both installed fine, but I can't figure out how to get Pentragram to recognize where i have the U8 source files.

Please, what files to I need to move where to get Pent and U8 linked? Should I reinstall in certain directories or in a certain order?

Thanks, Ultima Fan

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   10-25-11 03:48

Which version of u8 do you have? A CD version just needs to be put somewhere on your computer, then follow the documentation http://pentagram.sourceforge.net/docs.php#Configuration
Though in the case of W7 the location of the ini might be different.

--
Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Doppelganger (---.tampabay.res.rr.com)
Date:   10-25-11 12:31

Thanks for the response. I only have the original Ultima VIII right out of the gold box, as I cannot update either. Im having a much rougher time updating and running this game that most others! I can get it running in DOSbox fine, but its choppy

I cannot patch it, but thats a whole other story and why im trying Pentragram first. THe directions on the Pentragram site seemed somewhat vague to me and only said "Pentagram needs a pentagram.ini file to point it to the game data files. In Windows, it has to be in the current directory"

What directory? do I just need to move the ini file? all of them? ugh lol

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   10-25-11 13:21

Yeah, sorry, that guy writing the documentation needs some serious working over ;)

The ini should bein the pentagram folder, where you installed pentagram to (c:/program files/pentagram).
Problem is you need admin rights to write to it, that's something that needs to be fixed eventually. Alternatively there is some other folder it can be savedto andread from in your userspace but I need to check my W7 virtual machine.

--
Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   10-25-11 16:26

The best way is to point the pentagram installer to the correct U8 folder, it saves the location in c:\Program Files\Pentagram.pentagram.ini (if you installed to the default folder).
BUT since this is read only and you messed before you have another copy of that file in c:\users\YOURUSERNAME\Appdata\Local\VrtualStore\Program Files\Pentagram\ (this is also where your savegames end up in).

--
Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: doppelganger (---.se.biz.rr.com)
Date:   10-25-11 22:15

Ok thanks guys. ^ No offense with the difficulty, because I know some of you guys work on Pentagram ;) I will try that and see if Pent recognizes it when I launch it. I'm just looking for a smoother experience than the choppy hack job im getting in dosbox.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   10-25-11 23:26

Hmm, with a modern system U8 runs fine in Dosbox. And why can't you patch it?

--
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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Doppelganger (---.tampabay.res.rr.com)
Date:   10-26-11 01:14

Oh man, thats a whole other problem. Seriously, I am computer literate but this episode makes me feel like im trying to fly a stealth bomber for the first time. Ok, heres whats up with trying to patch the original....

Originally, whenever I tried to patch it in DOSBOX (or even actual win32 dos from a reboot) it gives me some error and says "arguments incorrect. Check patch parameters." Then after some toying around I progressed to it recognizing the patch location and I am not getting this "There is no version of Ultima VIII in C:\ULTIMA8\", which is a lie. DOSBOX is a liar.

I downloaded the newest legit patch. Placed it in the Ultima8 folder on C:Then I ran it in dosbox with the C: drive mounted and thats what its telling me. Thats why i've been trying Pentagram..

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Doppelganger (---.tampabay.res.rr.com)
Date:   10-26-11 01:47

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   10-26-11 03:11

Dosbox is not a liar unless your folder looks like c:/ultima8/ultima8 ;)
You need to learn how dosbox works before calling it such.

Dosbox "sees" only what you mount. When you "mount c c:/ultima8", dosbox has a c: drive with the CONTENT of c:/ultima8.
So things to try:
- u8patch c:/
(don't forget the slash)
- put ultima8 in the folder c:/games, then "mount c c:/games" in dosbox then cd to the ultima8 folder (c: & cd ultima8) and try again with the patch, this time there is a C:/ultima8 ;)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Doppelganger (---.tampabay.res.rr.com)
Date:   10-26-11 03:31

You're right, and I tried both actually. A few lines up it will shows the other result. It tells me "You must run U8PATCH in the current directory!" which appears to make no sense. I also tried U8patch c:\, and tried reinstalling the game to G: and mounting that one.

I really appreciate your help thus far, do you know of any other way to run this patch? Compatibility mode doesn't work, dosbox doesn't run it, win32 mode doesn't run it, and can't run it in win7. Oddly enough I can run the original game from dosbox with U8.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   10-26-11 09:28

the patch works fine in Dosbox. I think you made a mistake when you unzipped the patch.
Do this:
- put c:\ultima8 in c:\games (move the whole folder, not just the files)
- redownload the patch, it should be a zip file called u8patche.zip (for the English version or u8patchf.zip, u8patchg.zip for French and German)
- unzip that to C:\games\u8patch
- start Dosbox and type the following
mount c c:\games
c:
cd u8patch
u8patch c:\ultima8

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Doppelganger (---.tampabay.res.rr.com)
Date:   10-27-11 01:12

Holy shat, I got it to work. You hit the nail on the head, not all of the patch files were in the U8 directory and that was causing the problem. I appreciate the help and game on!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   01-20-12 17:00

I am trying to compile and install Pentagram SVN on my 64bit Ubuntu PC but I am kind of a noob at this and the process fails when I try to make the makefile. I followed the instructions at http://pentagram.sourceforge.net/docs.php. Before compiling I downloaded and compiled the following libraries: GUIlib-1.2.1.tar.gz, libpng-1.2.46.tar.gz, SDL_image-1.2.11.tar.gz, SDL_mixer-1.2.12.tar.gz, DL_net-1.2.8.tar.gz, SDL_ttf-2.0.10.tar.gz, SDL-1.2.14.tar.gz, zlib-1.2.5.tar.gz.

In the middle of the make process I get the following error messages and the process quits:

filesys/OutputLogger.o: In function `OutputLogger':
/home/[username]/pentagram/pentagram/pentagram/trunk/filesys/OutputLogger.cpp:90: undefined reference to `SDL_CreateThread'
filesys/OutputLogger.o: In function `~OutputLogger':
/home/[username]/pentagram/pentagram/pentagram/trunk/filesys/OutputLogger.cpp:103: undefined reference to `SDL_WaitThread'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [tools/disasm/disasm] Error 1

What am I doing wrong? Is it a problem with 32 bit and 64 bit compatibility? do I need to install the sdl libraries in /usr/lib32? Is Pentagram a 32bit program? Or did I forget to install some libaries? I am sure I am not the only one with this problem so if somebody could walk me through this process I would be very welcome. Thank you.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-20-12 18:15

Sounds as if it can't find the SDL stuff. You wrote you compiled all the libs, did you also install them (make install)?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   01-20-12 19:00

Yes. I compiled and installed these libs. Am I missing any libs? Like I said I am a noob, so any help is appreciated. Thanks for responding so quickly! I felt like I had hit a brick wall. I am eager to try out Pentagram in Ubuntu.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   01-20-12 19:35

edit: I compiled but did not install SDL_net because of some error, but that was not listed as a requirement for Pentagram. Also I am using Ubuntu 11.10 and I have previously installed 32bit SDL libs for use with old Loki games. Is it possible there is some kind of conflict with the older installed libs?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-20-12 19:40

that may be. Honstely I have no idea as well. I'm not using Linux, I can only say that it compiles fine on 64bit OS X...

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   01-20-12 19:46

I guess I should try installing a fresh chroot and re-install everything there.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Colourless Dragon 
Date:   01-20-12 21:56

Guessing you compiled SDL without threading.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-20-12 22:04

Aren't you supposed to install those libs+dependencies through a package manager on Linux? Especially when you define yourself as noob.

Either way, I'd wait a few days and then install (manually or by a package manager) SDL 1.2.15 which is about to be released any moment now.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   01-21-12 00:38

I went back and installed all the sdl libs through the package manager. (What is "threading"?) I rebooted the computer. Which is an AMD64 Dual Core. My OS is Ubuntu 11.10 64bits. I redownloaded the pentagram SVN and in the 'trunk' directory I ran ./bootstrap, ./configure, make. Same result

I got frustrated with Pentagram and tried the 1.5.x Exult svn release. It also failed on 'make.' I got these error messages at the end:

make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/[username]/exult-svn/usecode'
Making all in compiler
make[3]: Entering directory `/home/[username]/exult-svn/usecode/compiler'
/bin/bash ../../ylwrap ucparse.yy y.tab.c ucparse.cc y.tab.h ucparse.h y.output ucparse.output -- yacc -d -v
../../ylwrap: line 109: yacc: command not found
make[3]: *** [ucparse.cc] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/[username]/exult-svn/usecode/compiler'
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/[username]/exult-svn/usecode'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/[username]/exult-svn'
make: *** [all] Error 2

Maybe the failure of both Exult svn and Pentagram svn is related? Like I said before I have previously installed the 32 bit sdl libraries for use with old games. Could that be the reason for the failure? Or am I missing something else?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-21-12 04:27

Install yacc or bison or flex. I think one of those solves that problem.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   01-21-12 19:01

no. instlaling yacc and bison and flex didn't help. i'm sorry for posting so many comments on the same topic and it's probably some failure of mine to install all the right libs in the right order or something. Pentagram is still bleating over SDL_CreateThread and SDL_WaitThread and Exult wants me to "Consider adding `-I m4' to ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS in Makefile.am" but I don't know where to add that. My next step is to install a clean 64 bit chroot and reinstall sdl, libtools, autogen, autoconf, etc on the new chroot. But I am not sure I can use the package repositories for that. So, can I have any suggestions as to what all libraries, etc I should install on a brand new root to compile the svn of pentagram or exult?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-21-12 19:24

ignore the "Consider adding `-I m4' to ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS in Makefile.am"
You might need to run bootstrap and configure for Pentagram again and make clean before trying again.

for a clean prefix
-autoconf
-automake
-freetype
-libogg
-libvorbis
-libpng
-libtool
-m4 (maybe?)
-pkgconfig
-SDL
-SDL-ttf
-zlib
and maybe some other dependencies of freetype or so.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   01-22-12 05:37

I've uninstalled and reinstalled the Exult 1.5.x svn several times to start over and tried to recompile it and reinstall it without success. Then I used the Ubuntu package manager to install the Exult in the repositories which is supposed to be version 1.2-15. Now when I run Exult it reports version 1.5.0 instead of version 1.2. Huh, strange.

Is there any possibility of adding a preliminary version of Pentagram to the repositories, or at least somebody coming out with a linux binary release of a recent snapshot? I'm having no luck with it in ubuntu.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   01-22-12 07:41

Update: I think I got Exult svn working right. Now Pentagram svn fails on a different error, so I may be making progress. I must have installed or removed something important, perhaps it was when I ran 'sudo aptitude build-dep libtool' and it installed something (glide?) and uninstalled automake1.9 which I assume is old.

Quote:

pentagram.cpp:64:1: fatal error: opening dependency file ./.deps/pentagram.d: Permission denied
compilation terminated.
make: *** [pentagram.o] Error 1

Now I am stumped again.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-22-12 12:38

Yes permission problem caused by sudo.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-27-12 00:49

he he,
now I realized that my "working" Pentagram snapshot machinery was failing since December when Colourless added OutputLogger... Similar problem as yours :)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: djc 
Date:   02-13-12 19:16

Hi,

I encountered some of the problems reported here during the build process of the current Pentagram.

I have uploaded a tiny patch which should fix the few minor glitches following
the addition of OutputLogger.

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3487368&group_id=53819&atid=471708

Keep up the good work on the Exult and Pentagram projects, they are both a really amazing piece of code.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   02-13-12 23:03

I'll see about integrating your patch since this annoys me a lot and lacked the knowledge to fix it.
Thanks a lot.
Ideally we should find a way to have our command line tools NOT depend on SDL ...

Btw, apologies to oneismany for not realizing his valid problem...

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: djc 
Date:   02-14-12 19:03

Yes, you're right. I've updated the patch.
The tools don't depend on SDL anymore since they don't use OutputLogger.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   02-14-12 23:50

Thanks again for your patches. In the end the problem solved a bit differently. Kirben had added outputlogger.o to objects.mk for fixing the building on Windows through mingw, since that doesn't use module.mk. So just removing it from objects.mk would have broken Windows builds again.
He needed to include it in the mingw makefile and remove it from objects.mk.
This is now in SVN.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: GuJiaXian 
Date:   02-15-12 03:12

Can we get an updated PC version? Also, will the changelog be updated?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   02-15-12 05:23

Yes, though only the Apple PC snapshot was updated. Windows PC didn't need an update since that was only a compile time problem, nothing functional changed since the last snapshot.

And no, since this change wasn't recorded in the changelog (again since this has nothing to do with how Pentagram works).

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   02-18-12 17:07

thanks a lot for that fix. pentagram compiles now and it runs. but it won't play U8! :-( I get this message that it can't find U8 when I run it and I have tried renaming the U8 directory and using quotes in the file and now I'm stumped again.

Quote:

Scanning config file for games:
pentagram: Pentagram Menu, English
virtual path "@detect": /home/USERNAME/.wine/drive_c/Games/Ultima VIII
u8: unknown, skipping
----------------------------------------
No games set up in configuration.
Please read the README for instructions.


Unquote.


Any more advice?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   02-18-12 17:17

How does your pentagram.ini look like? And best don't put it in a path with spaces (until it works and then try out how good it works with spaces).

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   02-18-12 23:46

this is my whole ~/.pentagram/pentagram.ini file:

[U8]
path=/home/[username]/.wine/drive_c/Games/U8


When I run ./pentagram I get this error:

-- Pentagram Initialized --

Scanning config file for games:
pentagram: Pentagram Menu, English
virtual path "@detect": /home/[username]/.wine/drive_c/Games/U8
U8: unknown, skipping
----------------------------------------
No games set up in configuration.
Please read the README for instructions.
----------------------------------------


And no game to play. Curiously, it doesn't matter what I name my U8 folder, same results, but if I change [U8] (uppercase 'U') to [u8] (lowercase 'u') in the .ini, then the error line 'U8: unknown, skipping' will change to 'u8: unknown, skipping'. So it seems to be having trouble recognizing the game identification in the .ini file.

Pentagram doesn't have trouble finding the U8 directory. If I rename the directory something else it gives a different error saying that it can't find the directory. Like this:

Scanning config file for games:
pentagram: Pentagram Menu, English
virtual path "@detect": /home/[username]/.wine/drive_c/Games/U8
Problem mounting virtual path "@detect": directory not found: /home/[username]/.wine/drive_c/Games/U8
U8: unknown, skipping

So, that's not the problem.

[PS if someone could please edit my previous post and change the username in the virtual path directory to the same as this one I would appreciate it. The earlier one was unintentional.]

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   02-19-12 00:32

So what version of u8 do you have and where is the usecode file in that folder?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   02-19-12 14:32

It's version 1.14 and the usecode file is in the U8/Usecode directory.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   02-19-12 16:04

hmm, isn't U8 numbered 2.x? I have 2.12. Let's try different approach, from which release is your U8? Floppy version, EA Classics, Ultima Collection...? And which language. And did you install the game or just copy the folders?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   02-19-12 22:07

Also check how the usecode file is written. I don't know how sensitive Pentagram is on cases.
EUSECODE.FLX is fine, eusecode.flx probably, Eusecode.flx most likely not

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   02-19-12 22:54

Oh, sorry it's 2.12. I forgot about ctrl-v. It's copied from the original game CD and I ran the install under dosbox to set up the sound options like I've been doing for years and the game works well under dosbox.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   02-20-12 00:23

Then it is likely the case sensitive problem...

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   02-20-12 01:27

Yes! I changed everything to ALL CAPS and it works!!!! :D The only problem is there's no music. Sound is fine, just no music.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   02-20-12 01:30

Also, this isn't a problem but when the game is full screen the mouse has the typical right handed configuration - left mouse button selects and right mouse button moves. But in widowed mode, it has the left handed configuration - the mouse buttons are switched. Like I said, it isn't a problem for me, because I'm left handed and I like to play the game that way. The original game like U7 let you choose handedness. That isn't implemented in exult, which was one strike against it for me. I hope this "bug" won't be fixed, unless it's to let the user switch handedness.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   02-20-12 08:06

Strange with fullscreen and mouse button switch. Never noticed that. Will need to investigate.

About music, you probably need to configure pentagram.ini for your music device. Alsa might need a port set.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   02-20-12 16:11

I cannot confirm the different mouse behavior between fullscreen and windowed mode. At least on OS Xit is the same in both modes.
Perhaps you were able to set something up for left handedness that somehow influences SDL in fullscreen.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: oneismany (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date:   02-20-12 16:18

Hmmm, that's strange about the handedness, but it works out for me.

Ugh. I don't know how to find my ALSA port. Any help?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   02-20-12 16:27

it should be the default port but more than this... no idea :)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Shadowblade (---.197.127.154.threembb.co.uk)
Date:   12-29-12 14:02

It was so great to play this classic again without the claustrophobic, limited field of view. Pentagram was working great with Pagan Ultima VIII on my 1920x1200 24" monitor.

My pentagram.ini is standard with 640x480 or 800x600 @1600x1200 to preserve aspect ratio.


But on the Ancient Necromancer's Quest, after getting the "Grant Peace" spell, I teleported to the area with grass in the centre, two chests and a stone throne. The Throne area teleports you to the next area. The chests and the grass have rare ingredients, so it's nice to collect them.

But whenever I walk across the map it crashes at some point - not always the same point.

Sometimes it insta-CTDs with no message, other times I get an Assertion Failure. It's not always the same error, sometimes line 427 or 21 or something else, sometimes it mentions character animation and says to check the C++ documentation or something.

I tried re-installing Pentagram but it doesn't help.

I ran to the throne and teleported to the next level and it insta-crashed as soon as I landed.

This is pretty much a game breaker as I cannot continue. I could try an older save or I could Recall to the plateau and go through again, but I don't know if the error will re-occur or even if I can get through the Necromancers again as I already have some spells so I may not be teleported at the corrct point.

Is there any work around for this?


I DID use some of the cheats to use some spells before I had actually learned the spells, but I don't know if that could corrupt something.


Many Thanks

~

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Shadowblade 
Date:   12-29-12 14:11

PS

My system:
Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z
Intel i7 2600K 3.40 GHz overclocked @3.8 GHz
8GB Corsair Vengeance PC3 2133MHz DDR3 RAM
AMD Radeon HD 7970 3072MB
Dell U2410 24" 1920x1200 widescreen flat panel
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Pro
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   12-29-12 14:22

We might need a savegame

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Shadowblade 
Date:   12-29-12 14:28

OK. How would I send that? I know, RTFM!

I have:
one from just after I managed to gather ingredients which is corrupted and I can load but get weird graphical glitches and cannot use as the menu won't respond etc - it must have crashed just as I saved

one from a little earlier when I arrived at the place, before trying to gather ingredients.

Which do you need?


Cheers

~

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Shadowblade 
Date:   12-29-12 14:29

PS checked the bugtracker sticky, so I'll follow that.

~

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Shadowblade 
Date:   12-29-12 15:05

File limit 256 kb, saves are 385 kb.

What now?

~

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Shadowblade 
Date:   12-31-12 03:58

I zipped the saved game and sent it to the bug report place. Any chance some one might look at it?


Cheers!

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-03-13 10:58

Wjp fixed an old bug that corrupted savegames (see http://pentagram.sf.net)

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Jaesun999 
Date:   01-03-13 17:12

Can Pentagram play .ogg files for music like Exult can? I spent last year recording the MIDI music as played in each section of the game (via DOSBox and through a Roland Sound Canvas) here http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAD18FFF0FF78BC28 just to document the music as it is heard in game.

I'd love to record the music for this if this was available.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-03-13 21:37

No, Pentagram can't do this. YET! Since we did away with SDL_mixer dependency of Exult, maybe these changes can be backported to Pentagram (code is already shared anyway). *I* can't do this, maybe Colourless will when he finds time, maybe you want/can try your hands at this?

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Jaesun999 
Date:   01-04-13 20:58

OK thanks Dominus. If at some point someone would like to implement this, I'd be happy to provide the Sound Canvas .ogg files for it.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Colourless Dragon 
Date:   01-05-13 12:13

Pentagram's music system is quite complicated and can't trivially be extended to play oggs, nor do I think it should.

My recommend using FluidSynth (Pentagram should be built with it) with something like the Fluid soundfont for great music in Pentagram. High quality string and piano samples make a big difference. A Sound Canvas just can not compare to the quality you'll get from a high quality software modern software synth.

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 Re: Pentagram still alive?
Author: Dominus 
Date:   01-05-13 12:43

Thanks for speaking up. Problem with Fluidsynth these days is that it depends on glib2, not only for building but during use as well. Unfortunately this adds significant overhead if you want to distribute a static built ;(

Edit: freezing the thread due to spam magnetism

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Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

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