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 Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-05-09 13:58

I've been going through the SI face data and trying to copy as many back into BG as I could.

A lot of the faces are a pretty easy one to one transition (like the gargoyle king for draxinsum)

I did have to edit a few, and thought I'd share them.

All progress can be seen at

http://home.comcast.net/~exult/bg_faces.html

Faces you see here are probably made over already

(Edit by Dominus, cleaned up the first post again)
--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-05-09 14:03

I'm an idiot....

I know how to use forum codes, I don't know why I tried html tags instead.

Arcadion in mirror and gem (both animated backgrounds)




The Timelord, the blue in his hood and robe sparkles



Shamino, I HATE his SI portrait, so I modified the trapper portrait.



Papa, the naked dude in the cave. I used the nude Frigidazzi shot for Mama, but I needed a nude male... I can't believe I just said that.



Spark, normal and sad. The sad Spark looks terrible, but it's a start.




--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Peter Dodge 
Date:   05-05-09 23:20

Not too shabby at all. I've been considering SI portraits for BG for a while now, but I've never had a pixel artist type that's been interested in tackling all of BG's portraits.

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands
www.thefeudallands.ca

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-05-09 23:35

Well, I'm definitely a pixel artist type. I'll see how many I feel like working on.

I've got about half of the BG faces swapped out on my game, but almost all of them are just straight out of SI which I imagine most people would be annoyed with.

I've been looking at some more tweaks I can do to keep them somewhat different, hair color, right-left orientation, palettes swaps, etc...

I'll probably post some more shortly, I definitely want to at least do everyone who joins your party.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-06-09 19:07

Some new faces.

Erethian happy and angry



Geoffrey


Gilberto, the wounded guard in Trinsic


Random guards


Horance the Liche and Horance the ghost



Jaana


Julia


Katrina


Mariah


Penumbra


Sentri, needs work on the shading


Tseramed


--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-06-09 20:43

I'm probably going to post any further changes at the wiki instead of here.

http://www.thefeudallands.ca/wiki/Idea:SIFaces

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: kamaka (---.localdomain)
Date:   05-06-09 22:39

nice work! but one thing is bugging me...

Katrina is wearing a golden necklace, in your version of her portrait. Doens't look like the "humblest person" in britannia would wear such a thing hehehe.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-06-09 23:28

I thought about that, but there's nothing particularily prideful about a necklace. I just like the way it looked.

I'm probably going to do Katrina over from the start, I'm not really happy with her yet.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Der (---.localdomain)
Date:   05-07-09 16:21

Nice work.

However...

I don't like how Spark looks like a realistic rendition of Barney Rubble, and Jaana looks like a clone of that female SI monk. Also, the new portraits for Shamino, Horance and Gilberto make them look like totally different people to me. And since when does the Time Lord have a mustache?

The others look pretty good, though.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-07-09 16:41

You understand I'm not drawing these right? I'm copyng them from SI directly and trying to make minor alterations.

I made Shamino look different intentionally, like I stated above.

Horance and Gilberto ARE totally different people, with the same themes maintained.

I fon't like how Spark looks either, I said above that he was a work in progress.

Jaana IS a clone of that female SI monk. I made her cloak and hood brown instead of black, but there aren't that many details to alter. I might work on her face some, but I like her as she is now.

I'm trying to do EVERY person in BG at this point, so completion is my first goal before I make too many minor adjustments to finished portraits.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Der (---.localdomain)
Date:   05-07-09 17:16

"You understand I'm not drawing these right? I'm copyng them from SI directly and trying to make minor alterations."

I know. I just don't see the point of using portraits that look nothing like the people they're supposed to depict.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-07-09 17:24

Alright, I caved to peer pressure.

I finished Spark and I'm really happy with his new look.

I made a few alterations to Jaana, nothing too major though.

I removed the necklace from Katrina and did some work on her messed up eyes.

And the Timelord is now clean-shaven.

All of the updates and the new faces are at the TFL Wiki

http://www.thefeudallands.ca/wiki/Idea:SIFaces

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-07-09 17:58

Quote:

I know. I just don't see the point of using portraits that look nothing like the people they're supposed to depict.


Cause I don't have a secret source for high resolution portraits for incidental characters from BG.

The point is to have better portraits for everybody, I don't see the point in having half of the characters I talk having a totally different style of portrait.

Unless you know where I can find some kind of photo reference for guards in Trinsic that you talk to once, then they're going to look like Flicken and Schmed.

It sound like you don't want to use replacement portraits at all since they won't look EXACTLY like the originals. So what does it matter what my replacement portraits look like?

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Peter Dodge 
Date:   05-07-09 19:40

Eh, I wouldn't fuss too much about it Lathlas, one thing I've learned over the course of developing TFL is you can try and try, but some people just aren't going to be happy about what you've done with things X Y and Z.

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands
www.thefeudallands.ca

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-07-09 20:35

I know. I do appreciate constructive criticism though. I probably never would have tried to fix the Timelords facial hair or changed Jaana's face around otherwise.

I appreciate any feedback anyone has on what can be done to improve these faces.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   05-07-09 21:37

Pretty much all of these look a lot more like the SI characters than the people they are supposed to represent. This causes me to think about the SI character instead which poses a major problem.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Peter Dodge 
Date:   05-08-09 03:03

So, suggest how you would change them, because frankly, just saying "I dont like these" is entirely unhelpful. Get a clue.

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands
www.thefeudallands.ca

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   05-08-09 03:57

I said they are too similar, thus implying that more than very tiny changes need to be made in order to distinguish them. That is constructive, civil, and way more information than saying I don't like them. It is pretty ironic that you link to "civil" while telling me to "get a clue". You are the only one being rude in this thread Peter.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Peter Dodge 
Date:   05-08-09 04:07

Really saying "I don't like these, make them better" isn't helpful or constructive. But whatever, I suppose, it's not worth arguing over.

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands
www.thefeudallands.ca

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   05-08-09 04:35

I never said that. I said they were too similar to the SI portrait used and not the BG character they are based on. Quit saying I wrote something completely different. I don't see how my comment can be construed that way. You just seem to want to pick a fight and be an ass.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Dominus 
Date:   05-08-09 06:31

@Peter and Malignant: be civil and IMO we still have free speech and not always does an opinion have to come with a how to make it better. And it is true that Malignant didn't come close to writing "I don't like these, make them better".
But if you two keep on fighting here, this thread will be locked. You can ignore this now or post a "sorry" but no more on this.

Back on topic, when Malignant wrote that I found my own thoughts mirrored. By all means, go on with it, but I couldn't use these faces since I would be too much reminded of the SI characters they normally represent. As to how find other faces other than using your own photographs, no clue.

--
Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: TDI (---.localdomain)
Date:   05-08-09 09:09

I have to agree with Malignant Manor. Lathlas is doing a nice job on those portraits, but I don't think I would use them, as they remind me too much of SI characters (and I'm kinda attached to the BG portraits). Of course some people may want to use them, so by all means, carry on...

I don't think that the way MM pointed it out was offensive either. But I do realize that it's hard to convey an emotional context through forum postings. And sometimes, like when we are having a bad day, we may insert our own emotional state into someone else's text, intepret it very differently than the way it was meant and react excessively defensive to it.

So chill out Peter. I'm sure MM didn't mean to be insulting.

:) <--- smiley faces always very helpful to show you are trying to be nice. :)

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-08-09 13:02

I understand not wanting them to look too much the same, these are all rough drafts.

I'm really happy with Spark and Jaana, and fairly happy with Geoffrey.

Arcadion is pretty much perfect, but I didn't have to do much editing for him.

I want to make Batlin into a slightly friendlier looking version of himself.

Eiko, the oriental half-sister trying to kill Wonder-Boy, is pretty good, but I used the oriental avatar face so it may be weird if that's your character's face as well.

Draxinsum will probably get a headpiece more like his original portrait and lose the crown.

Dracothraxus is fine, just a red dragon. Non-human portraits are easier because they don't have facial features we identify with.

I'm working on a whole bunch of Baldur's Gate style portrait conversions, which causes me the same problems with looking to much like something else but I figure if I mix and match some of the sources it will lessen the culture shock of seeing the wrong face for a character.

Check out Nicodemus for an idea of those portrait styles.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: TDI (---.localdomain)
Date:   05-08-09 13:47

I don't want to deviate you from your original undertaking, but what (I think) would be really awesome, would be if someone took the original BG portraits, scaled them to SI-portrait size and then filled in the details.
Of course, I have no idea how easy or hard that would be to do.

I would definitively use that, if it was well done.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-08-09 13:56

I actually tried that with a few of them, but the detail simply isn't there.

I spent about two hours trying to make Chuckles come out right and it was just awful.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Bob The Cowboy (---.localdomain)
Date:   05-08-09 20:17

I think this is a great idea for a project, and I think copying portraits from the SI ones *is* a great way to start. I'm not sure about the Baldur's Gate ones, but that doesn't mean I couldn't be convinced ;o)

Is this one Jaana?

http://www.thefeudallands.ca/wiki/File:005.png

I think it might be better if you lightened up the hair (more blonde) and use a darker pink for the lips? Just my thoughts.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-08-09 20:56

Yeah, that's Jaana.

There's not a whole lot of tweaking I can do with the palette, if they're faces don't glow I'm usually happy.

And when I say Baldur's Gate portraits, I don't necessarily mean the ones actually in the game. There are TONS of fan made portraits for Baldur's Gate out there, mostly from game and book covers.

I have a rather large folder of appropriate looking fantasy characters, but they are a lot harder to put into Ultima because the palettes are totally different. Getting skin tones to not be yellow and glowing red is a huge chore.

I just finished a new batch of portraits, Rowena looks really bad outside of the game but for some reason her blotchy skin clears up when rendered in-game. I must have tried at least 50 versions of her portrait before I found one that even remotely worked. I hate redheads, their hair uses up all of the palette tones that I apply to skin colors.

Horance the Lich turned out pretty well, I found two different pictures of the same fantasy character, so he actually undergoes some physical changes when he reverts back to a ghost.

Finnigan is totally new and was the easiest portrait I've done yet.

Chuckles is just a place-holder until I can find some kind of Jester picture somewhere.

Googling anthropomorphic fox-person yields some interesting results, but I did get Frank done.

I tweaked the Troll guard below Buccaneers Den to look less like simon the Goblin.

I made a tortured one, he looks kind of goofy but he's definitely tortured.

I made a Forskis, I'm NOT looking forward to making the gargoyles, since I don't want them to all look the same but don't have a lot of source material. I hope I can find some red demon art that will work okay.

I'm going to try to use photos of the Star Trek TNG cast for the residents of Serpent's Hold. I'm not sure if I can make it function correctly but it'll be a neat head nod if it works.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Peter Dodge 
Date:   05-08-09 22:28

I would take a look through a free stock site for human photography to use as a source - sxc.hu is a great resource. While obviously you couldn't just shrink/etc them and use them, they're a great starting point for pixel art. It's basically what I've done for some portraits in TFL - to varying degrees of success - though I got lazy with the armour and other fantasy accounterments and copied them from SI.

Looking up "knight" on SXC.hu, for example, yields some pretty good reference material:

http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/o/op/ophelia/106372_boromir_3.jpg
http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/f/fl/flautenbag/103262_colourful_knight.jpg
http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/o/op/ophelia/85941_fantasy_people_ii.jpg

For the sake of bandwidth those are just the thumbs, but you can get full res pictures from there.

It's all a matter of knowing where to look when it comes to that kind of thing - google image search tends to just have a bunch of vacuous matter.

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands
www.thefeudallands.ca

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-08-09 23:25

Yeah, source material isn't as hard as getting the palette right. I've got about a hundred fantasy portraits from other games which scale well, and a couple of dozen fantasy photographs from SCA events and leftovers from another project I worked on awhile ago.

If I could make the GIMP's palette work a little more seamlessly with U7's this would actually be easy. Every time I think it's perfect I test it in game and get bizarre results.

At least I don't need to do any coordinates for portraits.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Peter Dodge 
Date:   05-08-09 23:48

If you have photoshop, I have both ACT and PAL files that I will be putting on the Wiki that you can just import and use. It's what I've done. A lot of the time the colour conversion can be kind of hard on you, but if you play with it right, you can come up with some decent looks with the pattern and diffusion methods.

For example, my latest TFL portrait, which I think came out alright:


(I hope the image code works...)

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands
www.thefeudallands.ca

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Peter Dodge 
Date:   05-08-09 23:49

Sigh, the image code didn't work. Well, if you plug in the URL, you can see it.

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands
www.thefeudallands.ca

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-09-09 00:11

Actually, after writing my last post I got annoyed with myself and found some tutorials. I think I've got my paletting worked out, I'm remaking a couple of portraits now that look WAY better.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Peter Dodge 
Date:   05-09-09 00:12

Your best bet is just to export an existing SI picture, and rip the colour index from it (tis what I did.)

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands
www.thefeudallands.ca

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-09-09 03:33

Yeah, that's what I did. It just took me awhile to make it work right. I got some weird results the first time I tried it.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-09-09 15:38

Does anyone know how I can contact the makers of U5:Lazarus? They have a whole portrait gallery of faces for their game and I want to know if I can use some of them.

I can't find any contact info on their page and I tried to join their forum so I can ask this same question, but I'm still waiting for an admin to approve that.

Figured I'd check here.

I've got several of the Lazarus portraits already converted, I'm just waiting for permission before I post them.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Peter Dodge 
Date:   05-09-09 22:16

I would stray away from using portraits from other projects myself - there's just too much potential for bad blood if they decide they don't like how they're used, and other such things.

As is, Im not even sure if the majority of the Lazarus team is reachable regarding Lazarus now - most of them have moved on to other projects since its completion.

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands
www.thefeudallands.ca

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Petrell 
Date:   05-11-09 17:34

All the Lazarus portaits can be found at The Hawks Ultima V: Lazarus page. Just make sure you have permission to use them from Laz team first.

_____________
Obsibian Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-13-09 12:16

I've gotsome more information and portraits up at the wiki. Progress has slowed because I'm actually *playing* Lazarus. This game is awesome, hopefully I'll drag myself away and keep working on these faces again soon.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: MeddlingMonk 
Date:   05-14-09 01:30

Some of the BG faces (the originals, I mean) are clearly just artwork but others are just as obviously made from photos. Ditto for SI. Marzo used photos for his Avatar pack. I agree with others that the WIP examples look too obviously like the SI faces that they are, so (as a positive suggestion) why not consider starting with photos? Modifying the SI faces will involve a lot of work anyway and fiddling with photos won't be any less, I imagine, but it might be better. Marzo used celeb pictures, and that could work here; but headshots of people you know is another way to go. Actually, others could contribute. Might be able to build up a decent library that way.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Tribun Dragon 
Date:   05-16-09 17:13

Why not also use portraits from Underworld II?
For example, the game had a really good portrait of Geoffrey.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Oblivious (---.localdomain)
Date:   05-16-09 18:35

""I have to agree with Malignant Manor. Lathlas is doing a nice job on those portraits, but I don't think I would use them, as they remind me too much of SI characters""
Anyhow, Julia looks way too old, and Katrina looks way too hot and skinny (she's fugly in SI)

""I want to make Batlin into a slightly friendlier looking version of himself.""
Yeah, he looks like an obese emperor Palpatine.

""I don't want to deviate you from your original undertaking, but what (I think) would be really awesome, would be if someone took the original BG portraits, scaled them to SI-portrait size and then filled in the details.
Of course, I have no idea how easy or hard that would be to do.
I would definitively use that, if it was well done.""
Yeah, that would be great.

""Some of the BG faces (the originals, I mean) are clearly just artwork but others are just as obviously made from photos.""
A LOT of them. I'm sorry, but people don't smile like that outside of photographic shots, (Reyna I'm looking at you) and it looks just gaudy. Jaana looks like someone surprised her with a "say cheese" while she was looking down at/reading something (which is better than a grin from ear to ear if you ask me)

""For example, the game had a really good portrait of Geoffrey.""
I didn't think it was that great. Mainly, it doesn't match his armor and his hair is too dark. I guess it's usable other than that (if his armor was changed to match BG's, his helmet was removed, and his hair/stache lightened a bit.
UW2 Julia however looks nothing like the Julia of Ultimas 6 and 7.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-16-09 21:37

I've never played underworld II for longer than 5 minutes, I hated the interface. I'll check out the portraits, thanks for the idea.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Oblivious (---.localdomain)
Date:   05-16-09 23:18

Oh, yeah, I also hated Patterson's UW2 portrait. Okay, so in BG he's definitely black (or half-black). In UW2 he has blue eyes and definitely looks caucasian. Maybe the developers didn't want to look racist...

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Peter Dodge 
Date:   05-17-09 02:59

"Anyhow, Julia looks way too old, and Katrina looks way too hot and skinny (she's fugly in SI)"

Katrina is not in Serpent Isle, unless I missed something significant.

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands
www.thefeudallands.ca

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Oblivious (---.localdomain)
Date:   05-17-09 03:29

Yeah, I meant BG >_<

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-17-09 04:43

You do know that the current progress is at the wiki, not here right? Julia is %100 new, among other changes.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Dominus 
Date:   05-17-09 11:05

I edited the first post and pointed to the wiki page. If you want me to word my edit differently, please say so :)

--
Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Tribun Dragon 
Date:   05-17-09 11:52

Yeah, the portraits in the game were good, especially since a number of people from Black Gate appear in it. (Besides the compainions they are, as far as I can remember: Lady Tory, Nanna, Charles, Miranda, Nell, Nystul, Feridwyn, Syria of Jhelom, The Wisp, Patterson, Nelson)

That's quite a number of people that also appear in Ultima VII.
Two examples:
A Wisp:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/u5lazarus/images/c/c1/Xor.gif
Nystul
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/u5lazarus/images/6/64/Nystul.gif

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-17-09 16:03

Quote:

I edited the first post and pointed to the wiki page. If you want me to word my edit differently, please say so :)


Awesome, thank you Dominus.

@Tribun Dragon: I used the Nystul image, but I can't find any more examples of UW2 portraits online. Do you know where I can get more?

I updated some of the faces again, I'm probably going to keep working on them and my new map throughout the day, so keep checking.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Tribun Dragon 
Date:   05-17-09 16:42

Sure, a number of them can be found in the Editable Codex, here the ones that are online:

Feridwyn
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/u5lazarus/images/9/90/Friedwyn2.gif
Lord British (looks more like his Ultima VII portrair than the one in SI)
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/u5lazarus/images/3/3e/British.gif
Lady Tory
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/u5lazarus/images/e/eb/Tory2.gif
Nelson (color swap for the cloak and mirroring, and it can also be used for his twin brother)
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/u5lazarus/images/f/f4/Nelson2.gif
Patterson
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/u5lazarus/images/b/b4/Patterson2.gif
Geoffrey
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/u5lazarus/images/a/aa/Geof2.gif

Meaning that only Nanna, Charles, Miranda, Nell and Syria are missing. I can send you these over mail.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Tribun Dragon 
Date:   05-17-09 16:52

No, wait, I send you all portraits in their original resolution, therefore no loss when re-sizing the pictures.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-17-09 17:30

Cool, thanks.

Do you have any for the non-U7 characters from UW2? Mors Gotha is the only character I know of exclusive to the game. I may be able to use some elements from some of them as well.

I really appreciate this, thanks again.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Tribun Dragon 
Date:   05-17-09 17:34

Got the mail with all the faces?

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-17-09 20:50

Yeah, I got all of the U7 faces, thanks,

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Tribun Dragon 
Date:   05-17-09 22:09

Well, I sent you another bunch of Underworl II pictures. That game really has good portraits. This time beside several guards and fighters, also a troll.

Enough pictures for your needs or should I try to gather even more of them?

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-18-09 02:01

Got your second mail, thanks. Anything you feel like sending, I'll use, but don't put yourself out. I have a TON of faces from various sources now.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-21-09 21:33

All of the gargoyles are done.

I tried to split them between Terfin and Vesper in such a way that none of the ones with the exact same faces are in the same area.

None of them are *exactly* alike, but there are some obvious similarities since I only had a few options for source material. I did check out the in-game description when you first meet them all to try and get certain characteristics right; smiling, displeased, etc...

The Serpent's Hold gargoyle is a heavily edited version of Michael Dorn, I'm planning on using modified pictures of the TNG cast for the portraits there.

I think I'm just going to start finishing up one town at a time, since it's hard to get motivated for the more boring NPCs in the game.

I keep trying to modify the gwani portraits into emp portraits but they are very stubborn. If anyone has sources for emps that might work let me know.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Tribun Dragon 
Date:   05-21-09 21:36

I noticed that you followed my advice about Nelson and Brion, nice touch the blue cloak.

All other Ultima VII NPCs from UUW II should be easy, since only the wall has to be removed from the background. Btw., I think the guard portraits from UUW2 are better suited, since they are actual britannian guards.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Tribun Dragon 
Date:   05-21-09 21:52

I forgot... the Gargoyles look all really nice. Everyone of them has an individual look. That must've been a lot of work!

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-21-09 23:53

Thanks.

Yeah, I'm probably going to go over any faces I copied from SI and see if I have a better option. I like the SI faces, but I seem to be the only one.

I finished Serpent's Hold. Menion, Pendaron, and Pendaron's Wife (can't think of her name) didn't seem to be based on Trek characters, but I made them anyway.

For the record, those *are* Brent Spiners eyes under Denton's helmet.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Tribun Dragon 
Date:   05-22-09 09:56

I think you should nonetheless try to use SI pictures, if they fit (f.e. Batlin was after the edit, a perfect fit, and the black sword looks great).

I noticed that you used an actual photogaph for Lady Tory. Well, it works better with the TNG joke, so the loss isn't too big, although she still looks too white (after all, Lady Tory is a black woman). A little further edit is needed.

My other thoughts on SI pictures that could be replaced:

-Lord British, his SI picture looks too desinterested (UW2 picture looks better)
-Goeffrey (actual portrait sent)
-Gilberto. (The Artakan guard form UW2(uw2_016), after an edit for the injury, looks better.)
-All guards (the UW2 portrait looks better).

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-22-09 12:20

I'm not talking about the SI faces that are the same people, just the ones that aren't.

I used actual photo's for ALL of Serpent's Hold, not just Lady Tory. I don't think she was black in BG. Marina Sirtis is mediterranean and I think the olive skin just looked darker than all of the very white people in Britannia. Although her portrait came out more washed out than the others, I'll probably revisit it at some point.

99% of the UW2 portraits are awful. It's like they fired their art department betwen games. I will definitely revisit all the guards, both with UW sources and external sources.

I'm NOT using UW2's Geoffrey, it's just plain wrong. I'll find a better source somewhere.

Lord British always looks disinterested, he's a terrible ruler.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-25-09 13:16

I just noticed that the shape number for Marzo's avatar faces is diffrent between the Keyring and TFL mods. Is there any particular reason for that, and are there any other differences I'm not noticing?

I'm trying to keep my files sorted for maximum compatibility and the different numbers gave me a headache until I figured out why I was getting different results.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Marzo Sette Torres Junior 
Date:   05-25-09 16:14

Quote:

I just noticed that the shape number for Marzo's avatar faces is diffrent between the Keyring and TFL mods. Is there any particular reason for that, and are there any other differences I'm not noticing?

It was to steer clear from the TFL-only faces that Wizardry had already added by the time I made the Avatar Pack.

------
Marzo Sette Torres Junior
aka Geometrodynamic Dragon
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Dominus (on the phone) (---.localdomain)
Date:   05-25-09 18:04

Hmm, should I clean this thread further? I mean de-linking the "old" images? Your call Lathlas! :)

Edit: so to not clutter the thread further, I just replay here and will leave it as it is, as I wrote, your call :)

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   05-25-09 18:28

Quote:

Hmm, should I clean this thread further? I mean de-linking the "old" images? Your call Lathlas! :)


Only if it bothers you. I don't really mind if people see the early attempts and have to scroll through discussion. As long as they can get to the current progress from the first post the rest doesn't really matter.

I do like having the various opinions here so that hopefully I won't have to hear the same complaints from different people.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   06-03-09 14:09

So, my hard drive appears to be totally dead.

I have a lot of my data backed up, but most of my recent progress on the faces is probably gone.

I'm going to try some more recovery options (I know what I'm doing here) but I fully expect to lose all of my recent changes that I hadn't posted yet.

Bummer.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Tribun Dragon 
Date:   06-03-09 18:43

Yeah, that sucks.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Dominus 
Date:   06-04-09 09:08

That is bad. I feel for you!

--
Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   06-04-09 15:03

I think I've managed to get at the data on my hard drive. I'm looking at it all right now, and I'm going to try and back it up before I repartition my drive and start over.

I'm just hoping that the data won't be corrupted when I copy it.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   09-15-09 20:03

So I got my new computer finally. Unfortunately my backup drive has also died in the interim so I lost a fair amount of my progress.

Anything I uploaded already I just pulled back down, so in the long run I haven't lost all that much.

I've started working on this again, although I can see that I have a lot farther to go than I'd previously thought. Oh well.

I made a new page for displaying progress as well, it's fairly graphically intensive. It displays all of the new faces (or a blank placeholder) next to the original BG style faces. I included keyring mod faces on the list as well in the hopes of maximizing compatability if I ever actually finish this.

http://home.comcast.net/~lathlas/exult/bg_faces.html

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Dominus 
Date:   09-15-09 20:57

With Firefox, I couldn't load that page, with Safari I could... oh well :)
Welcome back and too bad about your loss...

That page is much nicer to look at and compare faces.

comments about the Trekkies:
#199 shouldn't that be somehow more "Data" like and I think, just judging from the original faces, didn't you confuse 193 with 202? Don't know who #193 is supposed to be, though :(

--
Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   09-15-09 21:11

Some of these are very rough drafts from before I lost everything, so some of them might be silly for now.

I was kind of torn on the Data picture, the in-game description states that you can't see his face at all, so if I use a picture of Brent Spiner in a helmet, it will be better for the joke but less accurate in game.

As for 202, despite appearances he's not actually on Serpent's Hold. He's the caretaker at the Fellowship retreat one island over so he has nothing to do with the Star Trek joke.

192 & 193 are on Serpent's Hold, but they don't appear to be part of the Trek joke either, so I just arbitrarily made them characters from the show.

I cleaned up the HTML a little, hopefully compatability will be better.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   09-16-09 02:29

For some reason I can't get into my current faces directory via FTP. I made a whole new account just for hosting Exult files though, so I'll continue using this mirror. Please disregard any older versions floating around.

http://home.comcast.net/~exult/faces/bg_faces.html

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   09-16-09 03:32

There is apparently something badly wrong with my files or directory structure. Every time I upload a 'faces' directory it completely fails to ever let me in again. I can access every file and directory in four different upload spaces except for 'faces' and any file inside that directory.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Johann (---.localdomain)
Date:   09-16-09 23:23

@Lathlas
I think you got your slashes backwards. You are using \ instead of / causing the images not to show. I think safari automatically compensates for this but Firefox just doesn't like it.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: MeddlingMonk 
Date:   09-17-09 01:43

Konqueror also doesn't like the images page but, like Safari, Opera copes.

And if you don't mind a suggestion, I think it'd be nice if for the Time Lord you used Jon Pertwee or maybe William Hartnell.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   09-17-09 01:53

I hate using real people if I can avoid, shifting the palette from real skin into something that will display in exult is a nightmare.

Whether Firefox likes my slashes or not, my FTP access is fubar.

Normally I get this when I try to log in or access a directory:

Command: LIST
Response: 150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for /bin/ls.
Response: 226 Transfer complete.
Status: Directory listing successful

When I try to access any directory into which I've uploaded my faces, I get this:

Command: LIST
Response: 150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for /bin/ls.
Response: 426 Data connection error: No child processes.
Error: Failed to retrieve directory listing
Error: Connection closed by server

So, I am making more progress, you just won't get to see it yet. When I have a decent portion finished I'll update them in the wiki, that still seems to work for me.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   09-17-09 02:12

Ok, I'm mad. Apparently FileZilla doesn't like directories with a lot of files in them. I switched clients and BOOM, no problem.

I swapped the slashes, hope everybody can see it fine now.

I'm going to maintain this link, until something else breaks on me.

http://home.comcast.net/~exult/bg_faces.html

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Tribun Dragon 
Date:   09-17-09 08:14

Wow, thought it had died.

In case you need them, we recently uploaded all Underworld II portraits. http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Category:NPCs_of_Ultima_Underworld_II Feel free to use them, only remember to scale them down carefully, on they can become blurry.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: quentinak (---.localdomain)
Date:   09-17-09 17:17

Looks great!

How about using a young Richard Garriott's picture for Shamino's portrait? I've come across a good picture of his younger self on Google.

I just don't feel comfortable with Shamino being the Trapper with an evil grin.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Warder (---.localdomain)
Date:   09-18-09 10:51

Should you really be using pictures from Bioware games?

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   09-19-09 02:46

For the record, using a different picture for already finished portarits isn't a priority for me. I'll go back over some of them later for sure, definitely Shamino.

Anyone who has pictures or suggestions for any of the unfinished portraits is more than welcome to chime in.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   09-26-09 22:41

Updated, including Shamino since everyone but me hated him.

http://home.comcast.net/~exult/bg_faces.html

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Dominus 
Date:   09-27-09 12:17

I like that better.
I also edited the link on the first post to point to the new location of the overview.

--
Read the documentation and the FAQ are your friends! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Machiel (---.localdomain)
Date:   09-27-09 21:15

Not wanting to cause any offense with my first post here, but I hope new portraits won't ever be used in Exult but only as optional mods.

I am really fond of the old look of the game and, sorry to say this, but most of these portraits look awkward. Partly because I know the character behind the portrait and it is just plain weird to see the portraits from SI in BG.

I don't use Marzo's fixes either, since you can't use the old portraits anymore (for as far as I know). (Marzo, if you're reading this, is this fixable? :) )

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   09-30-09 20:08

So, I just attempted to make a new 'faces.vga' file with ipack and noticed that the palette on EVERY single file I've created is totally screwed up for some reason.

This basically means that I have to start over from scratch... AGAIN!

So, this time I'm just going to make all of the portraits in full RGB color and upload them that way so you can see what they're intended to look like and then down-palette them later. That way if anyone wants to fiddle with the palettes on their own, since I apparently suck at that, they can.

That actually shouldn't take as long for me, since making the portrait is easy, but making the colors come out right is the longest process.

Yay.

And to lump a bunch of replies together:

@Tribun, thanks for the UW2 links, although I doubt I'll use very many of them.

@Warder, I doubt Bioware cares as there is already a huge portrait community that uses their character pictures in other mods for games. As well as a ton of other copyrighted fantasy material both in and out of Bioware games.

And this is a really sad little mod, for a very niche community of a very old game. If anyone ever did care I'd fix it, but I'm pretty skeptical about that.

@Machiel, No this has nothing to do with the main Exult files, and I am in absolutely no way affiliated with the Exult team. I'm just some guy screwing around for my own benefit and posting the results here in case any one cares.

I am very much NOT fond of the old look of BG, and this mod is %100 not for people who are. I really wish people would stop telling me how much they don't want to use these, that's fine, just don't. Problem solved.

As for modifying the few faces in the Keyring mod back to the original, that's really incredibly easy with Exult Studio, I suggest you start a new thread or go to the feature request tracker if you aren't comfortable with that though since it's off-topic for this thread.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   10-01-09 01:29

You didn't save the u7 palette with them but colors seemed compatible. Use Exult Studio to create a palette. Open the picture in GIMP and copy it to the clipboard for pasting after changing the color map.


Select>All and Edit>Copy your image since it may need to be pasted after using the correct color map.

To get the color map, you select palettes.flx and make sure it is frame 0, then select export. Open the file in a text editor.
Delete the line

Palette from ExultStudio


Add these two lines to the top

GIMP Palette
Name: Ultima7


Save the file and exit the text editor.

Import the palette you exported from ES into GIMP by selecting Colors>Map>Set Colormap... Left click on the palette box. Right click on one of the palettes and select Import Palette... Select the Palette file dialog box. Choose the palette file you exported and modified. Choose a Palette name and select Import.

Then select the palette you just imported and then left click close. Now left click OK. Then paste in the portrait from the clipboard. Save the file.





Now for the rest of the pictures, you can skip the importing stuff.
Open the file.
Copy it into the clipboard.
Colors>Map>Set Colormap...
Select your palette and click ok.
Then paste in the portrait from the clipboard.
Save the file.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   10-01-09 01:44

When you make new portraits, you can start out with the U7 palette so you have easy access to all the colors (,index numbers, and html code) and cannot put in colors that don't exist in the palette.


To do that:

Image>Mode>Indexed...
Use custom palette
Select the U7 palette
Make sure remove unused colors from palette map is unchecked
(Dithering should be disabled but shouldn't matter since no colors are used.)
Convert


You should be good to go at that point.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   10-01-09 02:18

Thanks, but I have the U7 palette and know how to use it, that isn't the problem. For some reason all of my files got saved with the wrong palette, even ones that were fine from several months ago and I haven't edited since. I need to go back over them one at a time, which is the part that sucks.

I actually use two seperate palette files in GIMP, one thats the full 255 colors, and one that has the animated colors stripped out to guarantee that there aren't any color rotating pixels.

The reason it's such a hassle is that simply converting to the correct palette sometimes has bizarre dithering issues. Sometimes it's perfect, usually it's not.

I think computers just hate me.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   10-03-09 00:54

I redid all the palettes one at a time to see if I can save any of them and I think only a handful of portraits are totally botched.

Now I have a slightly different palette issue. If I use Exult Studio to add in my new portraits one at a time they seem to work fine, but if I use ipack to create a new faces.vga file they get created with a botched palette.

Am I using ipack wrong? My scriptfile looks like this:

archive faces.vga
palette palettes.flx
0/2: 000_
1/1: 001_
2/2: 002_
etc...

Should I be using something instead of palettes.flx for the palette?

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   10-03-09 03:33

Your problem is ipack uses the palette indexes and ignores what colors are actually used in the picture. Exult Studio will try and match the colors in a file and select the closest palette index that matches it. Your portraits show up properly with ipack when I edited them with GIMP to use proper palette (only tested Spark).

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   10-03-09 05:32

I see what you mean after testing some other shapes, some minor although horrible looking differences appear. I think that Exult Studio outputs the wrong html code for a few indexes. I noticed a difference between what is displayed in Exult Studio and what it outputs for use in GIMP.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Lathlas 
Date:   10-03-09 07:19

Minor although horrible is a pretty accurate description. I guess I'll just skip testing with ipack for now.

--------

No matter how badly the idiots outnumber you, they're still the idiots.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   10-03-09 09:30

GIMP doesn't seem to be saving the color index properly when converting no matter what I try. It looks fine until I reload and select the proper color map. It then looks the same as using ipack.

Reply To This Message
 
 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Malignant Manor 
Date:   10-03-09 09:53

Shp files seem to work properly but aren't handy for web viewing.

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 Re: Edited faces for BG
Author: Marzo Sette Torres Junior 
Date:   10-03-09 15:55

When editing U7-palette PNGs with Gimp, a workaround that works for me is:
* Create a palette of 255 colors from the U7 palette by deleting the last color;
* Duplicate that palette and make it into a 256-color palette by duplicating the first entry of the palette (the first two entries should be black);
* When you edit a PNG, convert it to the 256-color palette before saving.

The above works because the last palette entry is used in U7/Exult for transparency; hence, its absence in the palette is a non-issue.

I have actually preferred to use shps instead as they work without problems (as Malignant Manor points out). You can hack-up a script that extracts all shps to PNGs using ipack and dump the PNGs to your website, while working on the shps directly. You can then use expack to build the vga file.

------
Marzo Sette Torres Junior
aka Geometrodynamic Dragon
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

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