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 Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Gotcha! 
Date:   02-07-17 13:51

Maybe one of you can share some insights.

According to this wiki:

"These three pieces of Blackrock, formed like serpents, are the key on the Serpent Isle to open the Wall of Lights in Spinebreaker, Skullcrusher and the Shrine of Balance. At the first two, any of the serpents can be used (it does not have to fit! Not only is this stated in the game, Batlin uses the Chaos serpent to access the Order wall)."

Which made me wonder: If this is the case, why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights? I always assumed he got the wrong Blackrock Serpent.

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: KC (---.sub-174-192-11.myvzw.com)
Date:   02-07-17 14:24

If he rushed past bringing the Banes of Chaos into the Shrine of Order he was lusting for power over thinking it through. Have you tested this in the Shrine of Chaos?

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: KC (---.sub-174-192-11.myvzw.com)
Date:   02-07-17 14:38

It doesn't appear from looking at the original Usecode that is entirely correct. There is a check for the frame in Skullcrusher, but only in the EGG code.

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Alexander (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date:   02-07-17 15:43

I always assumed it had to do with him having the wrong serpent in his possession - trying to open the Order Wall of Lights with the Chaos Serpent.

I thought I had read somewhere, possibly in a wiki, that also having the fragments of the Chaos Bane in his possession contributed to it somehow, but I have no idea how.

Note that when opening the Chaos and Balance Walls, something or someone is transported into the Void (Dupre's soul & ashes, you). When Batlin tried it, no such thing happened. The wall may have shimmered blue, but it clearly didn't work.

To be fair, the game doesn't really explain this well, which Spoony even references in his review. But it always struck me as odd that Batlin had the wrong serpent in his possession.

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Gotcha! 
Date:   02-07-17 22:37

Hmm, good point, both of you.

To sum it up: He was carrying the three banes of Chaos to the Shrine of Order and did not have any ashes, assuming the ritual for opening the Shrine of Order would be the same.

But then again, the Order serpent was still whole while the Chaos serpent needed to be repaired. And that is what the ritual was for. So Batlin might not have needed to bring the banes to this shrine at all.

Perhaps the Wall of Lights refused to open, being aware of the three Chaos banes being near it, potentially being a danger to the Order Serpent?

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Knight Captain 
Date:   02-08-17 00:54

It has been speculated that the opening of the Wall of Lights allowed The Guardian to easily reach through the Void and slay Batlin.

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

The Guardian knew of Batlin's goals, and likely waited until the optimal moment to dispose of his disloyal pawn to cause the most impact. He is a sociopath, after all.

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Paulon (---.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)
Date:   02-08-17 02:45

I always figured from the Guardian's comment that he was behind the failure.
Overall, the whole Serpent Isle plot ended up finishing in the Guardian's favor as the Avatar was forced into a vulnerable situation to correct the cosmic issues.

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Incriptus (---.tukw.qwest.net)
Date:   02-08-17 04:13

Wait...NO! The wall is not opening for me! This cannot be!
No... the banes, they have... oh, what have I done!
I have been tricked! Avatar! I beseech thee! Help me before ...

I think the wall did open.
It certainly did look like a wall of lights.
However it wasn't opening for Batlin.
It was opening for the Banes

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: KC (---.sub-174-192-11.myvzw.com)
Date:   02-08-17 10:04

Should I add the green vertical Wall of Lights to my mod so others can use it?

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: agentorangeguy 
Date:   02-08-17 16:50

I was under the impression that the soul prisms Batlin used didn't have the right properties (when you had to dip them in the proper waters of discipline, tolerance, ethicality or whatever), so they were only contained temporarily and broke free. I believe someone in game said the Black Sword would only be able to contain them temporarily as well, that the soul prisms needed to be created the right way.

Nakar's Let's Play of Serpents Isle did a pretty good job at explaining things... Batlin tried opening the wall with the wrong serpent.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultima 6 Mod for Exult site: http://www.ultima6.realmofultima.com/

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Gotcha! 
Date:   02-08-17 16:53

@Knight Captain: I do think Batlin failed opening the Wall, since the Guardian didn't get through it.
If Batlin hadn't failed then the Guardian would be standing next to us and then kill Batlin, probably say something like: "See how I reward those who sought to betray me."

@Paulon: True that. It's actually what annoyed me the most of the game: "Hey, Great Earth Serpent, remember how I helped all you guys out? Nice of me, huh? Maybe help ME out as well, by getting the Guardian's grubby hand off of me!"
It really felt like a dick move, leaving the Avatar floating around in the void like that.

@Incriptus: You could be right, perhaps the Wall did briefly open. The Banes might have blocked passage somehow, since Batlin wanted to go into the void to become immortal (dunno how he thought to manage that, that fool).

Perhaps the Banes could have left their gems at any moment, since I find it doubtful Batlin used any water on them, making them unfit to hold the banes, so they could have waited for the right moment to burst out from their flawed prisons, right when there were some perfect human bodies around to take over.
This'd also explain why Batlin manages to open it right as you enter the room: Before that the Banes simply refuse it.

Hmm...

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Knight Captain 
Date:   02-08-17 21:00

The Guardian's goal wasn't to come through, but to just kill Batlin.

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Incriptus (---.tukw.qwest.net)
Date:   02-09-17 04:45

"Leave me alone, mage. I am but a little girl." "I know what thou art, Bane of Chaos. That body is but a shell that thou dost wear." "I can escape thee! My powers dwarf thine..." "Thy powers have dwindled due to thine imprisonment. Thou art no match for me, now..."

My Speculation ...

The banes captured by Batlin when the possessed Gwenno, Cantra, and ? (Argus?) we're clearly not as powerful as the Banes captured by the Avatar.

Batlin Captured them, they tell him of the power that can be gained by accessing the wall of lights.

Upon getting him to open the wall, they usurp the processing. They get the power that Batlin was intending for himself.

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Gotcha! 
Date:   02-09-17 11:00

@Knight Captain: That doesn't make sense to me. :)

@Incriptus: That makes more sense to me. :)

Well, I think I got my question answered. It's still a bit vague and what happens really depends on who you're asking, but I've gained a nice theory from all this.
Thanks, all.

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Knight Captain 
Date:   02-09-17 23:14

One of the defining features of sociopaths is they enjoy inflicting pain. So while the Guardian could go on a complete rampage, he prefers to watch as the Banes of Chaos terrorize and slaughter the people.

Indirectly the growing Imbalance threatens Britannia as well, so the Guardian gets to watch both worlds suffer. This pleases and nourishes him, much in the way you or I would savor ice cream rather than speedily consuming it.

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Gotcha (---.adsl.xs4all.nl)
Date:   02-10-17 01:35

@Knight Captain: If that were the case though then Batlin succeeded rather than failed and I imagine the Guardian would not mention the word 'fail' but rather tell us that Batlin has lost his usefulness. :)

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 Re: Why did Batlin fail to open the Wall of Lights?
Author: Knight Captain 
Date:   02-10-17 01:44

Batlin failed in the Black Gate.

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